The Bnetwork Guestbook Archives: 1-15 January 1997
I love it!! I just got the book and I am very excited. Love the fact you have a web site. I will have more comments to share later. S.S.
Sylvia Springer <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Victoria, B.C. Canada - Wednesday, January 15, 1997 at 11:16:21 (PST)
I don't think there is anything more important for people to know than what "B" and Ishmael have to say.
Karl W. Lewis <email@example.com>
Perth Amboy, NJ USA - Wednesday, January 15, 1997 at 05:03:08 (PST)
As a student of philosophy and religion, I must say that The Story of B is the most influential and thoughtful book I have ever read. Even the knowledge that is right there in print is astounding, but the paths of discussion and argumentation to which
it invariably leads have been phenomenal. I greatly look forward to exploring this site and adding my input.
Jay A. Hochberg <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Medford, MA USA - Tuesday, January 14, 1997 at 16:28:07 (PST)
I have to agree with Jamie. Salvationist religions are a direct outgrowth of the agricultural revolution. The basic premise that man needs to be saved was created then. This premise needs to be re-evaluated And most likely discarded.
On another subject (I fear this antichrist discussion is a distraction) I had a wonderful discussion with a prof of mine who taught a class called "Envision a Sustainable Society" - I was informed that a survey was completed and almost one quarter of the
respondents were very receptive of the sustainale message. The more people I met and talk with, the more I realize that people just need to put all the pieces together! They have the infor - as Ishmael said it is available in any public library - but th
ey do not now the very core of the problem - the taker culture - go and teach them and let the contagion spread B.
Trip Powers <email@example.com>
Portland, OR USA - Tuesday, January 14, 1997 at 14:21:53 (PST)
Daring,original,thought-provoking and highly readable. Yet my most fervent hope is that the author is sincere, and that he "lives" what he writes; otherwise, the book could be seen as a slick attempt at garnering "big bucks" at the expense of those m
any who share a tender empathy towards nature and simplicity...
Jack Karolewski <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Davis, CA USA - Monday, January 13, 1997 at 20:08:20 (PST)
It's unclear to me why there is such dissatisfaction with what B says regarding salvationist religions.
What is suggested is not an attack on christianity, but a highly logical argument.
The premise of salvationist religions is that man needs to be saved.
What would happen if that premise were not true?
What if man does not need to be saved?
If you consider yourself logical,
what happens if any premise isn't true?
Jamie Myxter <Pjmyxter@aol.com>
Seattle, WA USA - Monday, January 13, 1997 at 17:53:39 (PST)
just gotta it for my birthday, not quite done yet. hmm... I read Ishmael, see some contrasting styles of "teaching", still trying to piece everything together to see the big picture. can't wait.
Jon Lin <email@example.com>
Boston, MA USA - Monday, January 13, 1997 at 16:07:14 (PST)
The timing was right. Further recognition and definition of what needs to be done continues. With my life, the one I pay the bills in, walk my dog in, and wonder at the Nothern Lights; the vision is there and taking shape. Frustration? Yes. Confus
ion? Most definitely. Excitement? Almost beyond control.
Take all this, now, and DO something with it. Breathe it, bathe in it, eat it, digest it with your own saliva. Just do not shelve it and close your eyes and mind.
We are available.
Ramey Wood <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Fairbanks, AK USA - Monday, January 13, 1997 at 13:41:02 (PST)
Compulsive reading. The ultimate message is passed on to the reader through the experiences of Jared and the mindset of B. I loved it and am telling everyone it is a must read. The skill in keeping the reader intrigued and opening the mind with expansi
on questions is brilliant. Step outside the melting pot and see a different reality. Thanks B
Gary Solomons <email@example.com>
Annapolis, MD USA - Monday, January 13, 1997 at 06:05:39 (PST)
I have been raised without a religious backround, without the inherent culture and tradition. Perhaps it is for this reason that I dub myself a "cynic," or one who is more likely than not to critique organized religion. I aspire to the goals set forth
in "The Story of B," and find myself tragically dubious of the possibility of ever attaining these goals. If nothing else, I would like to state aloud my unwavering support of the doctrines set forth in this novel, as well as the inspirational means by wh
ich they have been presented. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Jamie Nash Yourdon <firstname.lastname@example.org>
New York City, NY USA - Sunday, January 12, 1997 at 20:21:15 (PST)
I haven' t read yet, but will soon. Ishmail was a very
interesting book the way it pieced together many of the things we have been taught and gives them a new meaning. I have a botany background and I have been aware of the ecological ramifcations that these books deal with for many years. Let's keep sprea
ding the word.
Chris London <email@example.com>
Oviedo, FL USA - Sunday, January 12, 1997 at 17:17:37 (PST)
I found "the story of B" on a shelf at goodwill in Tucson in mid-December and bought it for $1.50. I had heard about "Ismael" but had never read it. Upon opening and reading the book I am overjoyed to find in one book so many of the ideas and thought
s with which I am interested.
cson in mid-december for $1.50 (thanks)and upon
reading it, I was overjoyed to find so many
of the ideas that I have been working with over the
past year. I had heard about "Ismael" but this is my fi
first direct experience with mr. quinns writing.
I recently left my home in Portland after being layed
d off from my job for the 3rd year in a row. I moved to
to Tucson less to find a better job and more for the
thinking space that I needed. I am 27 years old and
have taught public high school english and history for
r 4years. My work with teens gives my so much hope for
or our future. I encourage everyone to fight for
larger support of public ed, and to learn and inter-
act with young people who need people to help them
facilitate the growth of their vision.
Eric Freund <snail: 618 S Columbus, Tucson,AZ 85711>
Tucson, Arizona and Portland, Oregon, USA - Sunday, January 12, 1997 at 15:27:31 (PST)
After Ishmael, "B" is a shrill reminder of what we must do.
Mary Emery <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Concordia, KS USA - Sunday, January 12, 1997 at 14:15:55 (PST)
I liked the two books of Mr Quinn. I would like to know more about the subject. Thank you.
Sylvia Rivas-Chiatovich <fideliar@aol>
Las Vegas , NV USA - Sunday, January 12, 1997 at 14:03:28 (PST)
I liked the two books of Mr Quinn. I would like to know more about the subject. Thank you.
Sylvia Rivas-Chiatovich <fideliar@aol>
Las Vegas , NV USA - Sunday, January 12, 1997 at 13:59:42 (PST)
A revolutionary view of history. Comparable to Darwin's Origin of the Species and Copernicus' heliocentric model.
SC USA - Saturday, January 11, 1997 at 11:11:14 (PST)
Having now finished both "Ishmael" and "B", I find everything I see or hear is colored by new perceptions. A question (well, many) has been nagging me of late -- are there any post-industrial societies that have actually moved away from taker culture
back to a more leaver culture?
Deborah Torgler <email@example.com>
Lincoln, NE USA - Saturday, January 11, 1997 at 10:33:46 (PST)
Once in a great while I read or experience something that creates a resonance; the 'wow' phenomenon that speaks to me "That's exactly right, or that's exactly what I would've said if I were the author" . B is such an experience. It sets my mind ablaze
with ideas about how to expand and promote the essence of the message. As B I think we should "Take this show on the road". Create a spectacle with sound and lights, and deliver the message with images and electronic reinforcement.
I read Tom Robbins with the same mindset. I attend workshops at Esalen. I sit with my mind machine and I dream of a leaver world. Does anyone out there want to go on a modern crusade. And make more messages, more issues of B in the world? Inspired I A
m; you bet! The message and the messenger are the same. I think the more ways we can deliver the message the more messengers we can create. Respond?
Barry Bozeman <SensInSys@aol.com>
Oak Ridge, TN 37830USA - Saturday, January 11, 1997 at 09:27:03 (PST)
In response to Mr Karas, who posted the below note, I have this to say. Your Right!!! The serpent did say "surley you will not die"..And that is a lie. We(our culture) are in the process of dying...even as we continue to multiply.The notion that our c
ulture can go on and thrive while we follow the Taker Vision is a Great deception.If you want to quote the Bible..God said, "surely that day you will die"..and Mother Culture (the subtle deciever) said. "Don't be silly...you will not die...Keep on Plantin
g...Keep on Growing. Keep on wiping out Able. Because through all this you will not die but will be able to harness the same powers of the Gods ...Growing all the food you want...killing those who do wrong. Because like God you now know right from wrong..
..So Mr Karas...you are right buy saying the Great Deciever could be Viewed(by some christians) as the first to whisper in our ears, and put into our hearts, the vision that we are following now, the blasphemous( in the Christian world) notion that we are
like the Gods, and may do as we please. So why is it such blasphemy to propose that we all spit out that fruit, and stop pretending to be God like? Why in the world would anybody (inculding the most devout Christian) be against the posiibility that we ca
n all ignore the Decievers whispers and stop thinking that we are like the Gods. It would seem that Christians would rejoice. But they do not...it confuses me. Please feel free to respond, even if you disagree. I feel this subject of the religous aspects
of the books antichrist/antisavior,you are "B"...ect..) message is a very important one to look at, because so many people are alarmed and threatend by it. If we are to change mindswe shouldn't disregard those who disagree. They may actually have some goo
d points.(Like Mr Karas's statment). We can learn from everybody..and really start to understand just what its going to take to spread a new vision.
Kurt Finguerra <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Bend, OR USA - Saturday, January 11, 1997 at 01:23:39 (PST)
Blasphemous. I've read Ishmael. I've read Providence. So what's new?
The doctrines of Quinn the Friar are as ancient and as wrong as the first lie of Satan the Serpent:
"You surely shall not die! (Genesis 3:4)
Visit my web site http://www.inil.com/users/rkaras/index.htm
Ishmael: A Christian's Perspective
Roger Karas <email@example.com>
St. Charles, IL USA - Saturday, January 11, 1997 at 00:19:10 (PST)
Just some thoughts to those who are strugling with The religous aspect of B. You don't have to discard every word of the Bible. You can still find words of wisdom in the Bible..they are a few..What struck me was the passage
"and the meek shall inherit the earth"...to me this famous passage doesn't mean that peacful and humble people will inherit the earth...that is the Taker interpetation which of course implies that Takers will inherit the earth. Peel away the filter and lo
ok at it with new eyes..We are in no way meek....even the most peaceful, earth loving, peace loving, person
who, although wants to drift from society and live in the woods, holds on to and spreads,unwittingly, the old vision is still a Taker...and he sure ain't going to inherit the earth.
The ones who will inherit the earth are the decendants of Able, the Leavers, who as of right are only to be found in small numbers in the various pockets of the world that we have saved for them (for now). But we can change all that.
Kurt Finguerra <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Bend, OR USA - Friday, January 10, 1997 at 20:05:06 (PST)
I posted a thought here a few days ago concerning Quinn's Antichrist/Anti-Christian section of B. There have been many wonderful responses to this, both to me personally and here on this guestbook. Some agreed with me, many didn't, but that's not th
e point. I think the fact that no one attacked but were willing to think about what was being said and willing to discuss it is what makes this group wonderful. To become B we must question, and I have seen that many of us are willing to do just that. The
re is hope.
I would also like to rephrase my stance, in light of what many of you have said to me. I realize that Quinn, and the rest of you as well, do not mean to suggest that Christians (or any other faith) need renounce their religion to become B. One of the c
ore pillars of the "new" vision is that there is no one right way to live. We must accept a wide rang of views, and I know that most of you are perfectly willing to do this. However, it remains my concern that the specific phrasing of the "Antichrist sect
ion" of B will push many Christians away from the vision. I have seen this reaction in some of the people I have exposed to the book, and it disturbs me greatly. My fear is that people will be turned away from this important wisdom because of a view that
Quinn never meant to suggest. It would be a shame to loose potential "converts" (for lack of a better word) because of a miscommunication, a misunderstanding of the true message. Saddly, however, I know that many Christians are misunderstanding the messag
e and will undoubtably continue to do so.
As always, I am willing to discuss this (or anything else pertaining to the B vision) with anyone interested. Once again, thank you for all your responses.
Justin Tyler <Q503@academic.truman.edu>
Kirksville, MO USA - Friday, January 10, 1997 at 12:51:54 (PST)
"The world will not be saved by old minds with new programs."
The story must provoke action & should be shared. However, we must not allow the messages to become a program with a host of "followers"...old minds.
So, this site should have a limited life and encourage action, not awe.
Dave Ropp <email@example.com>
Scottsdale, AZ USA - Friday, January 10, 1997 at 09:25:49 (PST)
"Dr. Don" P. Holdren, Professor of Finance <Holdren@Marshall.Edu>
Huntington, WVWVWwv USA - Friday, January 10, 1997 at 07:44:33 (PST)
Check out my books, "The Geography of Nowhere" (Simon & Schuster, 1993); and "Home From Nowhere" (S & S, 96).
Saratoga Springs, NY USA - Friday, January 10, 1997 at 06:47:23 (PST)
I think Randy Darnton is correct. There is no way
modern Taker society could just revert to being a
Leaver society. I didn't hear DQ advocating that
move. It is a change in attitude. If we start now
it may take many generations for the attitude to
change. I learned from my expierence volunteering at
the soup kitchen that "Programs" are not going to
bring about that attitude change. They may be
necessary and help in some limited way but the real
change will come with education. Education is a
step in the 'taking action' that will eventually
bring about attitude change. SQ
Steve Quinn (no relation) <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Las Cruces, NM USA - Thursday, January 09, 1997 at 23:21:16 (PST)
Ishmael and B have certainly changed my perception of where I came from, illuminated the preconceptions upon which my learning and world view are based, and provided an incentive to live as a part of the world and not apart from it. In browsing many o
f the comments there seems run a thread of thought that in order to be a Leaver, technology and high-tech agriculture must be abandoned and we return to a "simpler" (my quotes) life-style. The solution for changing a Taker culture into a Leaver culture d
oes not necessarily require that all aspects of the Taker culture be abandoned, nor that all progress made by the Taker culture be stopped. A Leaver culture is an attitude. A Taker culture is an attitude. That attitude is not only applicable to the the
earth and its nonhuman inhabitants, but also, and more importantly, to its human inhabitants as well. If we are to change from a Taker culture to a Leaver culture and not just destroy the Taker culture and replace it, we must first apply the Leaver atti
tude to ourselves, to the way we interact with each other. If we can not first accomplish this, we have no hope of applying the Leaver attitude to the rest.
Randy Darnton <email@example.com>
Daleville, VA USA - Thursday, January 09, 1997 at 22:37:17 (PST)
I was frustrated at first, because everything I could think of to *do* was some sort of "program", and B says it is not new programs, but new visions which will spark changes. Then I realized that *some* programs may be helpful, if not necessary. . .
Heck, even this B-Network is a "program". Anything we do at this point in history is bound to feel like swimming upstream, even if we're just trying to move to another part of the river. On another note, let me reccommend:
The Universal Pantheist Society Homepage. Pantheists are not technically Animists, but we share many ideals, and Pantheism is *not* a faith of salvation. jd
JD Stillwater <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Rural East Central, OH USA - Thursday, January 09, 1997 at 12:49:57 (PST)
I found myself feeling guilty for being so blind to what was and still is going on in "civilization." Ofcourse, it is still very hard for me to forget what I learned from the "Takers," and to accept what B is offering.
I read The Story of B right after I finished Providence. How this has affected my reading, I am not sure yet. For those who have read Providence, I feel just like the priests and rabbis did after reading Ishmael.
Timothy Panicucci <email@example.com>
Milwaukee, WI USA - Thursday, January 09, 1997 at 12:49:33 (PST)
Starting with multiple readings of Ishmael, and continuing with the Story of B, I have been contuinually amazed at the profundity of the ideas expressed here. Although I had often pondered these very issues prior to discovering Ishmael and B, I was una
ble to articulate them clearly and cogently as has Daniel Quinn. I am saved! I am B. You are B. We are B.
Andy Turnage <AyeamB@aol.com>
Washington, DC, USA - Thursday, January 09, 1997 at 09:59:26 (PST)
I've now read three of Quinn's books (_Ishmael_, _The Story of B_, and _Providence_), and I can't seem to get enough. I'm trying to grasp the ideas enough so that I can call them my own and become B. I'm really not sure where my talents will be best
put to use yet, I'm only 21, but I'm working on it. I know I will do whatever is within my power to save the planet. It's always been painful for me to watch, hear or do anything destructive of the earth, but I never could explain these "instincts," for
lack of a better word. Quinn has given me the knowledge to start explaining and defending, and I'm extremely grateful. Thank you.
Heather-Michelle Stewart <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Houston, TX USA - Thursday, January 09, 1997 at 08:56:21 (PST)
None, yet. Haven't been able to access any of the other links/Ray
Ray Lanier <email@example.com>
Micanopy, FL USA - Thursday, January 09, 1997 at 06:49:51 (PST)
The book implies vast socital and personal changes. For me, the most important message is that the world needs each of us, no matter where we work or live. Once we share with others the true history of this culture, we can draw a better map and chart
a new course to a sustainable future. Thanks again, Daniel, for your wisdom!
Howie Richey <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Austin, TX USA - Thursday, January 09, 1997 at 05:29:45 (PST)
Ishmael summarizes all that is uneasy when you walk down the street. It clarifies all that is odd when the television is on. It epitomizes all that is hope when you dream.
**"It must have a natural cause", "It must have a supernatural cause", ----Let these two asses be set to grind corn."**
**I'm tired, I'm cold, I'm tired of fighting the cold.**
----Thank You Daniel
Julius Moreland <email@example.com>
Eugene/Portland - or where eye B when I say now., OR USA - Thursday, January 09, 1997 at 00:16:07 (PST)
I have felt sad for a long time about our world and wondered what will happen to me, my family and my wonderful two year old son. My mother handed down Ishmael and I read the book in one day. The next morning ran and bought B.
I am so happy to know that there is something WE can all do and it does not matter what you believe in (God-no God) because we are all in this together. The problem also seems so big-how do we start. I am 20, I stay home with my son while my
husband brings home our FOOD. Where do I start. Thank you!
Allison Riley <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Lafayette,, La USA - Wednesday, January 08, 1997 at 22:25:39 (PST)
I've been reading some of the postings to this site
and I am a little confused. Some folks seem to
think they have to give up their religious beliefs
to save the world. When the tree huggers in northern
California got together and raised hell they were
able to stop Ronnie Reagan from letting his rich
friends cut down all the redwood trees on the
coast. The guys in Green Peace (or whoever it was)
forced commerical fisherman to used nets that flipper
could escape from before he died. I don't recall
religion being an issue in those cases. The thing
(in part) that will save the world is people getting
together, taking a stand, and taking action. It may
not work all the time but its better than saying
there is nothing I can do.
Steve Quinn (no relation) <email@example.com>
Las Cruces, NM USA - Wednesday, January 08, 1997 at 21:58:48 (PST)
I study Energy Resources at University of Pittsburgh, in an attempt to find clean, renewable, sustainable sources of energy. I came to this conclusion:
(1) The technology alone will not solve our problems, no matter what progress it will make.
(2) Most of the technological solutions could be substituted, with higher efficiency and at lower cost, by changing people's values, beliefs and lifestyle.
I would like to share with you some of my other beliefs:
* The role of business is to serve people, not to maximize monetary profits.
* The students should go to school with the only purpose: to learn, to understand, and to discover.
* The purpose of work is to use one's talents to create something meaningful and useful for others.
* The value of objects and places is determined by the amount of love (and other feelings) deposited in them.
* It does not matter what (one thinks, beliefs, does, ...), it matters how.
* Learning how to live is the most important thing to learn; no professional will live for us - we have to do it ourselves.
Michal Vojtisek-Lom <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Praha (Prague), Czech Republic - Wednesday, January 08, 1997 at 19:26:07 (PST)
I read Ishmael a few months ago (and was horrified to learn that it's been available since '92 and I hadn't picked up on it) and just finished B over the holidays. I've been thinking about the issues DQ discusses for only a (relatively) short time, and
I'm grateful that DQ has done such an excellent job shining light on what we should all know as obvious. I also am interested in dialogue regarding B, and to that end in addition to welcoming correspondence I'll share some of my reactions to others' thou
ghts. First, to the writer who proposed that if a leaver would opt to make use of offered immunizations (the product of our taker society), then DQ's ideas are baseless: No one has ever argued that taker society hasn't produced things that are valuable, u
seful, and yes, even good. The point is our culture IS NOT SUSTAINABLE. Changing our culture so that it becomes sustainable does not necessarily mean giving up all good things, it means finding a way to live that does not consume the Earth. Can it be done
? "[We're] an inventive people. Invent." I am also interested by those who have reacted strongly to DQ's Antichrist position. I do think that DQ's and many religous, Christian, Jewish, etc, ideas are compatable, but certainly not all of them. The position
that everything in God's creation deserves respect is in direct conflict with the idea that man was created as master of the Earth. I feel that every persons faith is a personal matter, and if your personal beliefs include a god as well as the belief tha
t humans must live as part of the web of life (as opposed to outside or above it), then you have nothing to fear from DQ's ideas. If, however, you feel that Christ has saved you, so the world doesn't need saving or that we are ordained to conquer nature a
nd control it, then yes, B is the Antichrist.
Chuck Borton <email@example.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Wednesday, January 08, 1997 at 12:27:20 (PST)
I read Ishmael last year. It was given to me by a friend around the holiday season. The note inside was "try these glasses on". I started to read the book. I came to the part where it said seeking someone with an ernest desire to save the world. At thi
s point I was doubtfull if this is a book I should even be wasting my time with. I quickly looked for the copyright. If this book had been writen two decades or so ago then I would be certain that the book was worthless. Being that if someone knew how to
save the world, and wrote a book to the people telling them how to do this then a major movement would have begun. To my surprise the books copyright was 92 I believe. This made me think that there could be a movement under way that hadn't reached me in t
his short time. It was amazing. So hopeful. Then I read "The Story of B" after my six months out of the country. This wasn't so lead you by the hand it's going to be alright. This book told you how it is. There is no way back. You either deal with or natu
re will deal with it. I was wondering what brought about this change. I at this time knew nothing about the author. I did see his picture on "The Story of B"'s jacket. Noticing that he was of an older age I was wondering what took him so long to start spr
eading this message. I just finished reading "Providence" which answered many of my questions. The change in the book styles. Ishmael was writen for Ted Turner and had to be a positive book about saving the world. After he got his foot in the door with th
is book nothing was holding Mr.Quinn back. He could say exactly what he wanted to and be published. Thats what I believe he did with "The Story of Be". If you have read all my rambleings then maybe you would like to write me back would love to here anyone
s thought on this subject.
Damon B Clark <Clarkd@pendleton.usmc.mil>
Canton, NY USA - Wednesday, January 08, 1997 at 10:01:33 (PST)
Both "Ishmael" and "The Story of B" opened my mind to possibilities I didn't know existed. I am a High School student and have been passing out both books to friends and relatives ever since I read them. I disagree with some of the messages that I hav
e seen that say that you must walk away from your Salvationist faith in order to acutally understand and join the movement that Daniel Quinn is attempting to initiate. He merely explains why Salvationist faiths are so important to people.
Joe Banyai <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Beverly Hills, MI USA - Wednesday, January 08, 1997 at 07:00:12 (PST)
I've read Ishmael, Providence, and The Story of B,
and I think they are the most insightful accounts of
our state in the world I have ever read. But most of
the people I recommend the books to are resistant to
either the ideas or the format, and do not complete
the book. I write fiction myself, and I would like
to write something that reflects ideas similar to
those expressed in Daniel Quinn's books. But I think
the plodding, didactic style in Ishmael and the
exclusion of the lectures from the text in The Story
of B are good indicators that fiction is not the most
natural forum for the presentation of radical new
ideas. No one particularly wants to read a lecture,
either; so where do the twain meet?
Jonathan Leavitt <email@example.com>
New Orleans, LA USA - Wednesday, January 08, 1997 at 00:03:21 (PST)
I recently recieved Ishmael for Christmas (read it in one day) and quickly tracked down a copy of B (read it yesterday). I am fully convinced that Mr. Quinn's vision is absolutly true. I have already set aside some money to buy as many copies of Ish
ael as I can to hand out to my friends. However, I don't think I will be doing to same with B. My reasoning for this was well stated by Scott Hart a few days ago on this page. I object to B claiming to be the Antichrist. I am a devote Christian, am not re
ady to give up my faith, and am unwilling to suggest to my friends and family that they should. I am willing to agree that Christianity as it is viewed by modern Christians must be rethought to work with Quinn's view, but I don't see the problem in making
the two work together. I don't understand why one can not be a Christian (or a Muslim, or any other religion) as well as an animist. Why must it make me a destroyer of the world because I believe in Christ? I think that Mr. Quinn is seriously hurting his
appeal by insisting that people denounce their faith. If there truly is no one "right" way to live, why must I denounce Christ to become B? Christian Animism makes perfect sense to me, does Mr. Quinn still welcome me to the movement?
I would love to discuss this with anyone who is interested and would, in fact, love to hear a response to this from Mr. Quinn because as his vision is stated now, I don't know that I am able to truly support it. As I said, I fully accept everything Qui
nn says, except that I must walk away from my faith. That's too much to ask...of a Christian, a Buddist, a Muslim, or any other devotee of any other faith. I am willing to whittle away the parts that are not important, but allow me my faith least
Justin Tyler <Q503@academic.truman.edu>
Kirksville, MO USA - Tuesday, January 07, 1997 at 19:06:27 (PST)
Quinn hits you fast hard and right on the head! He amazes, astonishes, and intrigues me. His reversal of assumptions is marvelously clever and I expect the Story of B to outsell Ishmael. I'm so grateful DQ decided to share his genius with the world!<
Roselma Quinn (no relation) <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Halcyon, , ca USA - Tuesday, January 07, 1997 at 15:55:17 (PST)
George Gilmour <email@example.com>
Richmond, CA USA - Tuesday, January 07, 1997 at 15:21:32 (PST)
I have read Ishmael and The Story of B. I would
like to read anything else Quinn has written. At
this point I think I am a believer. I have seen
a lot of the damage done by the Takers to ecology
and it is a concern of mine. I would like to
contact other readers of Quinn's books.
Steve Quinn (no relation) <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Las Cruces, NM USA - Tuesday, January 07, 1997 at 14:44:01 (PST)
I'm presently in the middle of the book, reading as quickly as I can while hoping it will never end. I will return to Ismael and Providence and read them again before my second reading of B. I don't expect to be the same - I don't want to be the sam
e. Thank you Mr. Quinn.
john j. baxter <email@example.com>
Jackman, ME USA - Tuesday, January 07, 1997 at 12:55:07 (PST)
I think the people of the world are ready for this new vision. The time is right. Daniel Quinn is a genius. He was able to take off the shades of the "great forgetting" and see the truth! This will be the most revealing book since Rachael Carson's, "Si
Jim Baker <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Lincoln, NE USA - Tuesday, January 07, 1997 at 12:12:14 (PST)
WHAT TO DO? WHAT TO DO?!?
Snail mail to Daniel Quinn -- tens of thousands of letters. Email to the website -- trillions and trillions of electrons. They all scream, "What NEXT? What do *I* do to help change things!?!"
Since this is, by far, THE MOST Frequently Asked Question of Mr. Quinn and others that have become the message, we have created a whole section of the Bnetwork dedicated to this.
What can you expect from this area?
Can you expect to see DQ's 10 Point Plan for Recovery? Quinn's Thousand Points of Light for Human Sustainability? Daniel's 10,000 Things You Can Do To Save The Planet?
Check it out, and see for yourself!
Your Local Webmaster...
Houston, TX USA - Monday, January 06, 1997 at 21:23:51 (PST)
I am thinking differently....for the better! I hope. As I am clearing off my windshield comprised of Mother Culture, I say to myself, "Myself, do I need to be in a leaver, non-technological tribe to be part of a system that 'saves the world'?" I wish
Kent, WA USA - Monday, January 06, 1997 at 20:52:24 (PST)
I have read Ishmael twice now and just last night finished B. I have yet to put any clarity to my thoughts but, as I was after Ishmael, I am emboldened. I am a teacher (or so the state of Oregon says) but as B I have yet to make the message totAlly my
own. I get lost, as did Jared, in arguments made by others using the modern paradigm as the base. I am not always able to see the lens that I too have. For instance I got stuck with a few friends (students) because it does seem like I am lecturing and
advocating a return to "lioncloths" as my friend put it. I need help in continueing to make the message my own. It seems so obvious to me but yet I can not articulte adequately the message. Other teachers at my school and I are looking for others who a
re B and are better at taking off the lens of the modern paradigm - the taker paradigm.
Some other points of interest: For those who would like a further reading list: (while these books have many flaws- they will help enlighten and provide further fodder for argument to many of the ideas expressed by Mr. Quinn)
Ariadne's Thread by Mary Clarke
-an interdisciplinary approach to saving the world
-Much talk of the Modern worldview
Africa Must Unite by Kwame Nkrumah (or any other Neo-colonial texts) I find imperialism and neo-colonialism to hold vital answers to the effects of taker culture.
Film: Ancient Futures:Learning from Ladakh
-a wonderful piece about takers demanding that leavers change their lifestyle - fair and thoughtful - a must see!!!
Obviously any sustainability texts-Hawken, David Korten, David Smith
Also look into Gandhi's beliefs on education - very appropriate and interesting
Trip Powers <email@example.com>
Portland, OR USA - Monday, January 06, 1997 at 14:17:31 (PST)
Prior to reading "Ishmael" and "The Story of B," I was bemused, befuddled and bewildered. Now I am simply B. -- Thank you Daniel Quinn.
Larry W. Denmark, MD <Ldenmark@mns.com>
Hollis, NH USA - Monday, January 06, 1997 at 12:39:49 (PST)
The stories of DQ are a life-changing experience. They have certainly changed mine. Being the son of a methodist minister gives me a rather startling viewpoint. In short, my faith is rapidly changing. I welcome any and all discussion of DQ books and ch
ristianity (or discussion of anything else, for that matter). It is my deepest hope that we all discover what it is we can do to save the world.
Joe Olinger <jlo3.duke.edu>
Apex, NC USA - Monday, January 06, 1997 at 12:28:40 (PST)
I've just finished reading Ishmael and have not yet begun the Story of B, and so cannot comment on it, but I did find the premise of Ishmael refreshing, to say the least. Any student of Native American culture will appreciate Daniel Quinn's insights i
nto "Taker" culture. I do have one small objection, however, and that is to calling it the "Mother Culture". Mothers give life and nuture. Our culture as referenced seems a much more masculine entity, heading us all to destruction and disenfranchising
women as it has, and perhaps should be a Father Culture. Nitpicky, I know, but...
Deborah Torgler <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Lincoln, NE USA - Monday, January 06, 1997 at 11:12:23 (PST)
this book made me THINK.
i would love to hear from people-- about what they thought-- and discuss it all. i learned so much from reading the book but we can all learn so much more from discussing it...
swarthmore, pa USA - Monday, January 06, 1997 at 09:52:52 (PST)
I finished the book in day. The Story of B was literally the only book I have ever read that I could not but down and finish later. There is no doubt that in my excitement to finish the book, I hurried through it, but...I can always read it again, an
d again, and again.
Thanks to Mr. Quinn for writing such inspiring and thought driven material...I eagerly anticipate the next novel.
With all due humble respects,
Jeremy Miller <email@example.com>
richmond, IN USA - Monday, January 06, 1997 at 08:21:22 (PST)
I began my journey as a young teenager with Rachel
Carlson's Silent Spring. It has gone on for the
last 35 years to include most of the sciences. I have
studied and read Maslow, Rogers, May, Capra, Senge,
Kauffman (and other from the Santa Fe Institute) to
name just a few. I struggle with the need to
translate what is "known" into words that pervade
the web of consciousness. Your contribution to this
most worthy cause is spectacular. Ishmael and now The
Story of B should be read by everyone. I will certainly
do my part to help accomplish that. It is amazing how
disconcerting and comforting it is to "know" you are
part of something much larger, that you are part of
everything. I hope we are all here 20 years from now
discussing the great paradigm shift of human behavior
and thought that evaded a our demise. Bravo Mr. Quinn,
I look forward to the continuing story.
Linda Kohler <LKohler916@aol.com>
Gloucester, MA USA - Sunday, January 05, 1997 at 20:39:50 (PST)
My thots are just being born again after most of my cultural beliefs have been wrought asunder. I'm looking for a foundation to build upon to see if I can extract some sanity out of the mess I find things in at the moment. I see no clear way to the f
uture that will change the inevitability of it all as it presently seems. I welcome the insights that others may have achieved from Ishmael and "B". Somehow I know what DQ has revealed is "right" but at the moment don't know how to survive with any optim
ism. Any help out there? Most intriqing dilemma. Thank you, I think, DQ!!
DwightRichardson <firstname.lastname@example.org (Dwight Richardson)>
Naples, Fl USA - Sunday, January 05, 1997 at 18:55:41 (PST)
All I know is that Daniel Quinn is a brilliant man and I honestly wish That in stead of writing the book, he had taken a huge loudspeaker and announced to the whole world what his views are and what he suggest we do. I disagree with alot of people comm
enting on his being in "favor of letting people starve" That's what I thought at first, but then I realized, other animals don't hand over extra food to the endangered speicies. Where in history is it recorded that maybe another species tryed to help the
dinosaurs thrive? I ask this, with out one culture/species/lifeform gone how can another improved on ever hope to make the earth the home it was meant to be and live in harmony with it and all creatures?
Bonnie Greenberg <Ronald@dreamscape.com>
Fayetteville, ny USA - Sunday, January 05, 1997 at 18:40:55 (PST)
Just got the book.Only read two chapters so far but
I cant wait to get back to it,
Port Murray, nj USA - Sunday, January 05, 1997 at 17:43:34 (PST)
For the past thirty years, I've been reading, thinking and tracking down who we are, where we come from, and where we're going as a species,and culture. Finally, someone has provided the code-breaker that makes sense of it all. I thought "Ishmael" was
the key...now I see that Mr. Quinn has done an even finer job in passing on the torch. I can now roll up my sleeves and begin with a fresh slate, new inspiration, and a deep recognition about what I've been rebelling about all these years. There is hope
in my heart again. Thank you, B.
Richard Rodgers <email@example.com>
boulder creek, ca USA - Sunday, January 05, 1997 at 11:31:59 (PST)
My mind is blown. Thank you for opening my mind.
Michelle Calton <U828@academic.truman.edu>
Kirksville , MO USA - Saturday, January 04, 1997 at 19:01:58 (PST)
I read Ishmael and I loved it. I got all of my
friends to read it and it really changed the way
I think about many things. I just began The Story
of B and it is very intriguing. I can't wait to
Sara Durham <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Kirksville, mo USA - Saturday, January 04, 1997 at 18:41:57 (PST)
Man living as just another species...what a concept!!
Our intuition will guide us if we listen. We all have B inside!! Thank You Mr. Quinn the clouds have parted.....
Craig Susser <email@example.com>
Los Angeles, CA USA - Saturday, January 04, 1997 at 14:21:29 (PST)
It is becoming ever clearer to me, that things need
to change drastically to ensure the survival of
our planet. Both Ishmael and The Story of B have
provided a message, with regard to this issue, that
each of us has a responsibility if we are to
survive and prosper. I personally continue to struggle
with my piece in this monumental puzzle. But I see
more and more people who see where we're going, and
know that there has to be another way. I look forward
to sharing ideas with my fellow seekers.
Dave Schutzman <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Englewood, CoCoCoCoThe messag USA - Saturday, January 04, 1997 at 12:54:01 (PST)
The story of B and Ishmael changed my whole perspective of the world. It is very encouraging to me that this movement is happening. I have felt something was wrong with OUR civilization but could not put my finger on one thing or another. Thank you
Daniel Quinn for your timely writtings. I look forward to future contacts.
Gus Murphy-Moulton <email@example.com>
Seattle, WA USA - Friday, January 03, 1997 at 07:32:44 (PST)
The world needs teachers like my friend Bernard. After his year of student teaching, I knew that he would leave his mark on a generation of children. He was great with them, and they responded in kind. Bernard sees the big picture, understands how each
individual child fits into our world. Everybody underwent a transformation during his student year, including the children, their parents, even other teachers.
Bernard called me this morning, disconsolate. He hadn't gotten the full-time teaching job he was interiewing for.
"What happened?" I asked. "They loved you during the first interview. This one was supposed to be a formality."
"It was over almost as soon as it started," said Bernard. "I think it must have been my new tattoo."
"What tattoo? Did it show?"
"Yes," admitted Bernard. "It's right across my forehead. It says 'I AM THE ANTICHRIST!'"
S.R. Nelson <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Walnut Creek, CA USA - Thursday, January 02, 1997 at 19:48:34 (PST)
Never have I felt so at a loss for words and action after reading a book as I did after both Ishmael and B... But Thank You to Daniel Quinn for opening yet another pair of eyes, and thanks to the webmaster for creating this network and alleviating my s
ense of hopelessness and isolation.
Dina Trageser <email@example.com>
Eugene, OR USA - Thursday, January 02, 1997 at 18:06:07 (PST)
I loved The Story of B! ...except must B end up as the Anti-Christ? For many, their concept of God and Christ does not conflict with the Law of Life. I was very dissapointed that DQ would use such an important set of stories and ideas and send
if off as a stab against religion.
I have been a great great fan of DQ and Ishmael since the month Ishmael was shipped to the bookstores. I've even bought a case of copies of Ishmael to give away because I thought it should be read. But I think it was a plain foolish move for DQ, no
matter if the if he is right or wrong, to attach the loss of one's faith and the idea of following the Anti-Christ to becomming "B". I wonder how many people will shy away from these important ideas because of this.
Scott Hart <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Paradise, UT USA - Thursday, January 02, 1997 at 17:48:01 (PST)
I read Ishmael about a year ago and just read B yesterday, so maybe I haven't delved far enough into the "what can we do" aspect of the changes many of us would like to see. But, isn't adopting a vegetarian lifestyle one giant leap we could each make
to put an end to totalitarian agriculture (which is feeding more animals to be consumed than it is humans, directly...and in a very inefficient manner to say the least!) Having been vegetarian for 6 years and vegan for the last six months, I can attest t
o the fact that it is truly a vehicle to pique the curiousity of the masses...what we eat is so central to who we are...and everyone loves to talk about it...can we start there? Is Daniel Quinn an advocate of vegetarianism? For the curious, the best rea
d is "Diet for a New America" by John Robbins.
Debra Palka <email@example.com>
Buffalo, NY USA - Thursday, January 02, 1997 at 14:14:04 (PST)
I am very heartened by how many "edges of the
mosaic" DQ was able to fill in with "The Story
of B" that were not filled in "Ishmael". The
message is clearly the same, but to my mind far
better expressed; Mr. Quinn has clearly spent
much time filling in chinks and reflecting both
on the message and its application.
I am also quite encouraged to find that his
advice to those of us seeking a more sane way to
live resonates with other voices to which I am
tuned; those extolling voluntary simplicity, those extolling a retreat from consumerism, those crying out for stronger community, less disparity between
rich and poor, greater social justice, greater
"true cost" accounting for our activities and
I for one will stand up and talk to a _lot_
of people about both "Ishmael" and "The Story
of B". My warmest thanks and regards to Mr. Quinn
for both of these works, as well as for continuing
to be an activist himself through his talks and
through forums such as this one. There's a lot of
work to be done...let's get on with it!
Jeffrey P. Murray <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Atlanta, GA USA - Thursday, January 02, 1997 at 08:10:19 (PST)
somehow this philosophy is very intuitive within all of us. relationships between fellow man, animals, the earth, etc. can no longer be based on exploitation. community and (though it sounds naive) love are two components of leaver society that can r
eally start to transform us. they are fundamental and are the fount from which institution and action will acquire specific change. western religion, specifically the teachings of jesus christ, are not antithetical to this path. god did not give adam t
he creation to conquer but as a sign of god to live in community with, working through a mutual respect. christianity of today's church is so far removed from its fundamental teaching because of church doctrine that it is easily attacked as taker oriente
d. reading ishmael opened my eyes to a sadistically materialistic mother culture that exploits and kills all that is potentially good in humans. luxury is sought at the expense of millions of poverty stricken people. profit is fought for at the expense
of resources and natural beauty. cultural icons and our president preach growth, development, consumerism, and the hope of a strong economy.
what they are saying is i am going to use you, the earth, all its living creatures for my personal gain...screw community, screw nature, screw my fellow human
jonathan clapper <email@example.com>
seattle, wa USA - Wednesday, January 01, 1997 at 21:50:02 (PST)
Oh I am so ignorant!
Why should others be?
Matt Clement <firstname.lastname@example.org>
brunswick, me USA - Wednesday, January 01, 1997 at 13:56:22 (PST)
i need somethin to do. i agree our present system does not work . i want to feel i've contributed to
to a better life for my child.
orlando, fl USA - Wednesday, January 01, 1997 at 12:25:22 (PST)