The Bnetwork Guestbook Archives: 1-11 Feb 1997


Bravo!!! I enjoyed both books tremendously and like everyone have passed them on. Another book with similar ideas is "On Being Human" by Ashley Montagu. I feel very priviledged knowing that there are many others out there with the similar beliefs. I have only one comment on some of the readers comments. It has been said that the world will not be saved in our life time. Is this not another excuse to do nothing and pass on our problems for the next generation to solve? Ok I have two comments. We are a society hell bent on solving problems by addressing the symptoms and not examining the real cause of the problems. I think this book is a perfect explanation to this statement. Thank you, I look forward to reading more.
kathlene jennings <wtay.mnsi.com>
Windsor, Ontario, Canada - Tuesday, February 11, 1997 at 17:43:41 (PST)
Sorry for the extra entry, but my entry a few back has an incorrect e-mail address. Here is the correct address.
Stephen Potter <spotter@spiritone.com>
Portland, OR USA - Tuesday, February 11, 1997 at 14:55:18 (PST)
Aha! Daniel Quinn has finally articulated a feeling that I believe has been on the minds of people for. . .well, perhaps since the first of the Takers began to exterminate other cultures and other beings in the hunt for total control. Riane Eisler speaks of the "dominator mentality"; B of the "Taker culture"; Fritjof Capra of "mechanism"; and Ernest Becker of our problematic "need to spiritualize human life." All of them discuss fundamentally interrelated aspects of our cultural vision, and all are, of course, interdependent (excuse the overly systemic vocabulary!). The understanding is all around us--at least on an intutive level--however, the greatest challenge is with us today. How can we turn understanding into action? How can we not "save the earth" but rather "save the people"? This is the work ahead for all of us and it is work that will doubtlessly extend beyond our lives on this planet. It is our job to change our minds and the minds of everyone we contact because, as B notes, only changed minds can change the world. Just remember, it took over 10,000 years to get into this mess and it may take even longer to clean it up. Thanks to D. Quinn for a good start to an ongoing process!
Vince Childers <104603.2704@compuserve.com>
Darien, CT USA - Tuesday, February 11, 1997 at 12:52:18 (PST)
I am excited that the colleges are sharing these books and it is great to hear students on the page.It gives me hope that this is growing as Daniel explained in his answers (see Daniel q and a). I am over 40 and work on saving the earth with my growing company. I think I can see 5 generations now and life is so full and exciting. If you look on this site you will find a share essay URU which helps answer what to do next. Thanks Daniel.
elower.hotmail.com
Fairfield, ohoo USA - Tuesday, February 11, 1997 at 11:13:32 (PST)
I never realized! But I guess, how could I with Mother Culture whispering in my ear? To see the world so clearly is almost painful, I want to scream at people sometimes------WAKE UP!! But I've just started telling others. They may think I am crazy, but I'm not giving up on the human species yet! S. Eide
Sarah Eide <eides@fargo.k12.nd.us>
fargo, nd USA - Tuesday, February 11, 1997 at 09:53:29 (PST)
The importance of Ishmael and Story of B cannot be denied. Ishmael was the 'easing-into' for Story of B, I think. SofB (if I may) is much more 'in your face.' It raises the level of the playing field incredably. My whole notion of time is changed. I think of 10,000 years now, as if it were nothing, where 200 years used to be ancient history. I have a question for Daniel or anyone who cares to dialogue. The past few years I have been studying something called "Creation Spirituality." Mathew Fox has been one of the main reasons for it's strong emergence into our present consciousness. It is a "Christian" based spirituality but it is far different than the "Christianity" described by Daniel. One quote by Mathew describing present religious state: "Lacking a living cosmology, the modern era has sentimentalized religion and privatized it, locating it so thoroughly within the feelings of the individual that the dominant relgious force of our civilization is that pseudo-religion known as fundamentalism." I'm wondering if Daniel hasn't oversimplified and left out some incredible history/people that were very animistic in their approach; Meister Eckhart, Hildegard of Bingen, Thomas Aquinas etc... The ideas of Creation Spirituality go way beyond this savior stuff. It even goes way beyond the last 3 million years and the tribal cultures and the beginning of this planet. It is a coming together of science and spirit in a mystical way that encompasses a Cosmology. The first moment of the big bang. The first micro second all the material needed for this entire universe/cosmos, you and I were brought into being from emptiness. It's a wonder and awe that gets us beyond any heaven and hell thinking. Every molecule is alive with star dust and it is all sacred. So, hard to keep this short, but my point is that not all that has come out of the last 10,000 years has been of the typical Mother Culture thinking. Many mystics and prophets were interested in more than just the human condition and saving our souls. So much more that could be said, but that's a start. I really enjoyed the books.
Stephen Potter <spotter@spritone.com>
Portland, OR USA - Tuesday, February 11, 1997 at 00:43:17 (PST)
Hi Folks: I tried to send an e-mail but I'm not sure it went so I'll try again. I have been advised by my vendor that U S West (don't know how many others) are attempting to get permission to charge you and me long distance phone rates by the minute for e-mail and internet access. To protest this Taker move e-mail isp@fcc.gov. not later than 2-13-97. The more portest mail the FCC gets the better. Thank you. Steve Quinn
Steve Quinn <stq@lascruces.com>
Las Cruces, NM USA - Monday, February 10, 1997 at 20:55:36 (PST)
I haven't finished "B" yet, but, I have completed Ishmael. I have read that the entire universe is presently being shifted from the piscean era (parent/child era of the last 2000 years) to the aquarian era (cocreative partnership era). I have also read that there will be many changes and it will result in the ultimate healing of our planet. I would say that "The Story of B" is quite possibly a manifestation of this shifting of collective thought, even though it was written by one man, and hopefully it will help create a much healthier environment in which to live.
Conrad Hanson <chanson@sunline.net>
Punta Gorda, fl USA - Monday, February 10, 1997 at 15:00:30 (PST)
On extended business, (My own book tour, actually) I read Ishmael, Providence, and B while imprisoned in various hotels around the country. It was wonderful! Lot's of time to absorb and reflect...Upon coming home, I found this tremendous website! I feel at home here. Thank you, everyone, for making this such an invigorating, hope-filled place to visit.
Susan McElroy <Brightstar@triax.com>
Troutdale, OR USA - Monday, February 10, 1997 at 14:27:18 (PST)
Wow. What a wonderful experience to breathe a sigh of relief and know I am not alone, that I am not crazy. It doesn't matter that talking about B can make enemies -- now I know WHY and HOW everything going on in our Takers world has felt so -- wrong -- to me, and why all my efforts to explain that wrongness has met with blank stares. Thanks, Daniel, for naming the unnamed. Carla Mortensen
Carla Mortensen <mortense@mail.duke.edu>
Durham, NC USA - Monday, February 10, 1997 at 10:10:20 (PST)
The Bnetwork and ishmael.org continue to evolve in response to our visitors...

Daniel Quinn Answers Questions about Story of B and Ishmael are the most popular parts of both websites, followed by the guestbook. If the volume of visitors, or even the number of questions suggests the number of B and those that aspire to B, then we are NOT ALONE!

Because so many find the Q and A section to be so useful, we have moved the "Daniel Quinn Answers Questions about Story of B and Ishmael" parts of both these websites to a new location where they have been completely rebuilt, expanded, and made more useful! To check it out, visit the old FAQ section at http://www.bnetwork.com/faq/ and follow the links...

Please let us know what you think of this new format, and provide us with your suggestions and ideas.

Enjoy! -- The Webmaster
Webmaster <webmaster@bnetwork.com>
Houston , TX USA - Sunday, February 09, 1997 at 21:27:12 (PST)


Ishmael and The Story of B changed my thinking and quite possibly the path the rest of my life will take.
Dena Bliss <dbliss4@aol.com>
Sebastopol, ca USA - Sunday, February 09, 1997 at 11:44:05 (PST)
I'd just like to say that upon reading Ishmael my life flashed before me as one that consists of teaching others the already existing ideas that Quinn arranged so logically. Ishmael firmed up my desire to help the world (or rather the existance of our species) into something more concrete. Since then, I've gotten all my friends to read the book and have been avidly searching out other Ishmaelites to discuss that foreboding question of "Where do we go from here?". A spiritual revolution (not just a mental change, but a change from the heart) is neccesary to make any sort of workable solution. We must introduce a totally new model of living that functions outside of the system of the Takers if we wish to effectively make a difference. I'm glad to be a part of this beautiful movement! --Sam Sadin
Sam Sadin <samiam-ru@juno.com>
New Orleans, LA USA - Saturday, February 08, 1997 at 20:13:31 (PST)
I read Ishmael in college and it changed my life. I'm in the story of B right now, and it is by far just as incredible. Thank goodness for Quinn's clarity.
Candace <candee@mindspring.com>
atlanta, ga USA - Saturday, February 08, 1997 at 18:17:41 (PST)
So, lets move forward to a new vision. But be careful not to behave like a taker, a product of our present mother-culture. One thing apparent to me in B and in some of the comments on this web page is that hatred and the I'm-better-than-you attitude is strong (and probably a taker characteristic) but must be avoided. Change takes a lot of energy and we shouldn't be wasting energy building a wall between sides or making enemeys. In obtaining the necessary change, taker mentality must be avoided. Lets procede by GAINING one person at a time and by communicating the basic meaning of this change. (I see one person has done that by sending out 100 books -- great.) I am trying to discover how I can contribute I hope you will too.
Philip <kphilip@gnn.com>
Madison, WI USA - Saturday, February 08, 1997 at 14:55:47 (PST)

Philip:

Yes, let's move forward to a new vision. But let's also be cautious about warning people not to "behave like" a Taker. I am a Taker---not by choice but because, like everyone else, I am an inmate of the Taker prison. What does it mean to BEHAVE like a Taker? St. Francis of Assisi was a Taker. I am a Taker. Mother Teresa is a Taker. Abraham Lincoln was a Taker. Aristotle was a Taker. Leonardo da Vinci was a Taker. Florence Nightingale was a Taker. Martin Luther King was a Taker. Louis Pasteur was a Taker. Albert Schweitzer was a Taker. Please don't turn the word Taker into a synonym for "bad person." It if turns into a synonym for "bad person," then it becomes meaningless.

Daniel Quinn


Having previously read Ishmael, I just completed The Story of B. It was deeply moving and profound for me. I am still "stewing"...a good stewing. The imperative to BE the message... of course. Not programs.. also of course. The way that religion and salvation are such insidious lynchpins of our culture, so ostensibly benign, yet not at all. These are things I knew somewhere, but reading B brought it clear. Thank you. I have already had several others read it and have given it for a gift. Bravo.
Steve Granek <stevegr@ix.netcom.com>
Columbia, MD USA - Friday, February 07, 1997 at 15:00:25 (PST)
Thank you Daniel Quinn! Thank you for Ishmael and The Story of B. We have been and will continue to pass the message along by sharing your writings with others and, most importantly, by talking and being who we are. We are the new B and so on........
Jennifer and Sarah Sattler <jsatt77809@aol.com>
Greensboro, NC USA - Friday, February 07, 1997 at 09:30:22 (PST)
For five years I have been thinking of myself as an Ishmaelite, and my thinking, as Quinnian. It will take some time to think of myself as B. However, I will spend the time, thinking, and it might happen. When I closed ISHMAEL, I realized that my responsibility, my part in the story, was beginning. Daniel Quinn had done the hard part, all I had to do was make sure that the book was widely read. The first 100 copies I bought were hardcovers! I was happy when the paperbacks appeared, for the next 30 copies. I gave them to anyone willing to discuss the book with me, and asked them to just pass it on when they were finished. Some people were very offended by the book. Some never finished it. But some were deeply affected. I gave a copy to Ed Begley, Jr., the environmentalist and actor, and have heard him speak about what it meant to him. I am no longer able to buy so many books, but I intend to send a follow-up letter, a review of "B," to those who "got" Ishmael. I hope that all the anthropological data in B is factual - the tribes and their laws, etc. It is pretty powerful as written, please let it be real. Lenora Kirby
Lenora Kirby <lokirby@aol.com>
Agoura Hills, CA USA - Friday, February 07, 1997 at 00:05:22 (PST)
In belated response to Ms. Myxter's message, about the church not spreading the message of the Taker mythology I have this to say...Marshall McLuhan wrote, "The medium is the message." The message was spread that humans *belong* in control of the earth and that they are inherently seperated from, and indeed above, the rest of nature. In Ishmael the take mythology is spelled out through help from the story of the fall. In B, this intrinsic flaw of man is broadened into a understanding that it is the Salvationist religions of the world that have heloed to spread this message. Perhaps the message which has been being sent for so many years in the places of worship throughout the world could not be recognized or realized is because indeed, the medium is the message, and we have been whispered to by mother Culture for so long that we cease to hear her, even after our ears have been opened by Daniel Quinn...Just my thought...Be well,
Meg Ballard <nutmeg@eden.rutgers.edu>
Rutgers U. New Brunswick, NJ USA - Thursday, February 06, 1997 at 16:56:48 (PST)
I would like to know if anyone has tried to tie the teachings and writings of Buckminister Fuller to this new way of seeing the world. Please reply on this page. I do not have an email address as yet. Thank you.
PAUL S. PHILLIPS
MCDONOUGH, , GA USA - Thursday, February 06, 1997 at 07:00:13 (PST)
It is strange to me that this web site is so popular . I read Ishmael ,Provedence, and Story of B. I pen paled throught the news letter before this handy web site. I am suprized at the energy I draw from reading the reactions and up dates. I have fought using the computor until I discoverted this site . May I recomend Mutient Message . I work with a company who is trying to save the earth by changing peoples buying habits. I have shared these ideas on things to do. Please contact me if interested.E.Lower, Cincinnati Oh
elizabeth lower <elower.hotmail.com>
fairfield, ohoO USA - Wednesday, February 05, 1997 at 12:19:24 (PST)
It's more than just a journey of the mind. It's a turnaround How has the review for the book been so far? I would enjoy to bounce some ideas off somebody. Very good book. very good book.
steve deblieck <deblieck@pioneerplanet.infi.net>
mn USA - Tuesday, February 04, 1997 at 18:18:53 (PST)
Hello everyone! I'm new to the web. I am halfway through "B", and can't put it down, just like "Ishmael". I read most of the comments and just wish everyone else out there could "get it". Daniel Quinn has written books that helped me channel all my thoughts I've had for years about organized religion, our society, and the way we are destroying this planet. Has anyone read "Providence"? That was wonderful- to get more insight into Mr. Quinn's life that led him to write these books. Anyway, just thought I'd see what this was all about. Pass it on - I gave Ishmael and Story of B to all my relatives for Christmas. I am anxious to get my hands on the sequel to Ishmael. Does anyone know when it is coming to bookstores? P Heather
Heather <hfahl@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Bayport, N USA - Tuesday, February 04, 1997 at 13:25:59 (PST)
I've just begun to read The Story of B, and find myself captivated. I've been exploring "dangerous ideas" like this for years and I'm feeling stimulated, anxious and excited, looking forward to completing the book. I also wonder if anyone can point me to thoughtful criticism of the ideas expressed by Mr. Quinn. Peace, Jim
Jim <fourjays@pop.flash.net>
Albuquerque, NM USA - Tuesday, February 04, 1997 at 09:36:03 (PST)
Glad to be aboard. Looking forward to the ride.
Jim Kelley <75402.1740@Compuserve.com>
San Francisco, CA USA - Monday, February 03, 1997 at 22:38:35 (PST)
This is the second time I have 'put something up' in the guest book...as with most of us I have 'spread the word' as much as possible (meaning that both my copies of Ishmael and B are loaned out...) I think it is great that we can all communicate like this... I do not think that a year or so ago I would have been so open to the message put forth by these books but now it has changed my whole outlook on things, the only problem is trying to explain these feelings to other people (which is why in 2 cases I just thrust a book into there hand and said 'read') I am an actor, an artist and I feel inspired by these things that have been said and if I can in some way put these things up for people to see I will I have been reading about this one particular artist in New York who is very abstract but his shows are aimed at opening the same doors in his audiences mind and if I can in some way work along the same lines, not nessesarily abstract,but toward changing minds which is why I became an actor and later an artist because if I am going to affect people then I need to have some direction for my energy... DQ has helped me hone and shape that direction... I do not say this so much tell you how B effected me, but more so to show those who wonder how to use this knowledge, that if you spread the word and use what we have learned thus far to press on and create change within and without you it doesnt nessesarily have to be so hard it is all up to us to figure out how to do this and give what DQ has said on the subject I think that it is the right direction 'the hippies' had the right idea but they were going on a gut instinct now we have the advantage of knowing what that instinct was all about Some people think that idealism is foolish but I think it is enlightened, no idealist may not be practical but what has practicality bore lately... I say we are all idealist until we give into the dark machine of our dying society... but then again I could be wrong, but I do not think so...actors are egotist after all. replys? thanks, shawn
Shawn Hughart <Polythene2@aol.com>
New York, NY USA - Monday, February 03, 1997 at 18:33:19 (PST)
For the benefit of Mr. Ramey Wood, I would like to clarify my use of the term "vision". I get the impression from your post, particularly: "A very important thing one needs to remember, though, is that creating the vision sometimes replaces creating the reality." I would think that this would be the case of a wistful daydreamer, but not for me. I am not talking about a blueprint, or a 100 year forecast. For me vision is simply the first step I take in the process of effecting change or any specific end, followed by planning, organizing and implementing. And since we are very much at the fore of this hopefully impending change, I would think that vision would be entirely appropriate. But, be that as it may, Mr. Wood might be interested to know that he is not the only one who took issue with my emphasis on vision. Our webmaster, Alan Thornhill responded to me, via personal e-mail, with a quote from Daniel Quinn. I cannot tell if it's an established quote from somewhere or a message Daniel Quinn instructed him to convey. Whichever, no matter, here it is verbatim: note: "the other side" refers to the wall from Ishmael. "We DON'T need to envision life on the other side BEFORE we can journey there any more than early experimenters with motion pictures had to envision what motion pictures would become in a century. If they had waited for that, the developments that took place during that century would not have taken place at all! No development in history EVER occurred because people envisioned it in advance." Daniel Quinn Mr. Thornhill added only that I should visit the section "Things to do" and read the essays he says DQ recommends to help in understanding the issues I raised, which I did. I had already read some of them and I took up with 'A new way to live". Ironically, the first 2 paragraphs read: begin quote by Daniel Quinn "A New Way to Live" During the years 1976-90 my intellectual horizon was dominated by the ideas that ultimately found expression in Ishmael. My entire life was bound up in reaching that horizon, and I made no effort to see beyond it. Indeed, why should I? Reaching the horizon in view was hard enough. When I finally reached that horizon, I honestly thought my life's work was done. The first readers who wrote to me were startled to learn that I had nothing more in mind at that point in time. I had not as yet lifted my eyes to the next horizon that awaited me. Only in the last six months have I begun to see this next horizon clearly -- and to make my way toward it. I don't mean to make this sound like something I've done single-handedly. Far from it. You have shown me where to look. Without your letters, your questions, your urging, I'd be as sightless as I was two years ago. end quote It seems to me that, Mr Quinn, should be able to recognize the value of vision. His horizon is no different that mine. Neither if us can truly map the landscape beyond, or the one beyond the next horizon. But that does not concern me or my vision, because I am not compelled to rule the world, at any level. That's a Taker attitude. In my vision of a healthy society/environment, people live in small townships, burgs, villages, or even tribes, if you will. Everyone strives to be a vital, contributing member, because that is how honor is won. Because it is my vision, I am particularly concerned with my role in the community, my contribution. I decided to focus on food. So that's what I do now, in the here and now. Growing it, preservation techniques and small-scale farming being the primary focus. Nutrition and medicinal-use plants soon became an adjunct to my new education. My vision isn't trying to be a 100 year forecast, Mr Quinn. Nor is it a wistful daydream, Mr Wood. It's more about finding a niche. My vision is as local as my vegetable garden, as local as the plans for a new chicken house, as local as the bloom on the cheeks of a healthy child My original post was apparently misleading, and didn't do a good job of conveying the point I'd intended, which was simply to ask for others to share their vision of what a modern animist society might look like. I didn't mean to suggest that we needed to come up with one right way. Not by a long shot. Thanks for listening. Deborah
Deborah McDonald <sundanc1@ix.netcom.com>
Scotts Mills, OR USA - Monday, February 03, 1997 at 15:59:30 (PST)
B is right. I can never go back, nor do I want to go back. The question is, "Where do I go from here?!?" My search for the answer is just beginning. I will persist in my search. I have no other choice. ............another new B...
Richard J. Zimmerman <richard.zimmerman@medtronic.com>
White Bear Lake, Mn USA - Monday, February 03, 1997 at 11:22:04 (PST)
In Reading B...which, despite limited funds, I happily recieved for my birthday, I was struck by truths. After I read Ishmael (Which I am happy to say was a required reading for one of my classes last year) I nearly forced everyone I knew to read it. SOme did so reluctantly, but I felt it was important and I hoped they had gotten something from it. From that point on I looked at life differently. Being a Conservation Ecology major at this huge institution (And it is an institution)I have a strong background in the fundamental laws of how ecosystems function. It had always seemed counterintuitive to me that people would complain about food shortages when the world pop. was growing exponentially...a scenario almost never seen in the rest of the ecosphere except, or people insisting that man is somehow seperate from nature. After reading B, I am happy to say that I have finaaly learned why I had always had such distaste for organized religion, though that aspect of reading the book has less to do with the very real aspects of the degradation of the ecosphere due to man's war with the planet (Well, actually it has very much to do with it but anyway.) I have been planning to write about this topic for a paper of mine since before I read B, generally based on my own limited observations because- Like Jared- I am not a historian...far from it,and Ishmael, but now B has afforded me with so many more options and directions in which to go. I had qualms at first about using these ideas, which I sadly cannot claim as my own...as far as my professors are concerned at least...however, after I finished the book, I thought to myself that if I am indeed B, because I have been changed by what I read, and I felt as if I could answer questions beyond the scope of the teachings in Ishmael and B, that I could use the book as a umping off point for my arguments. Then I wondered to myself....But am I really B?....I'd have to say that I don't know...I haven't been tested yet...I need somebody to put that brick in my hand before I can come to any conclusions about that...Any volunteers? Peace....
Meg Ballard <nutmeg@eden.rutgers.edu>
New Brunswick, NJ USA - Monday, February 03, 1997 at 11:02:42 (PST)
Non-christians, indeed even atheists, are as much captives of our civilizational system as are christians. What we are at pains to overturn is not religion or christianity itself, but a system of beliefs that will render ourselves extinct if it remains unchanged. Stamping out christianity, were it possible, would not magically create sustainable ways for 6 billion of us to live.

I'll not deny history--or the role of religion in spreading Taker mythology. But religion is merely the vehicle for the message. I see and hear the message hundreds of times a day, from every medium imaginable--and NOT from church or christian sources. The message is everywhere, including (but not limited to) religious circles.

Jamie Myxter <Pjmyxter@aol.com>
Seattle, WA USA - Monday, February 03, 1997 at 09:39:56 (PST)
Hello again! I just want to say something in regards to Ishmael's warning (in regard to the way the message alienates you from friends etc.). Even though B may make a few enemies, it is important not to think they are deaf to the message just because they hate hearing it. At the end of his diary, Jared pointed out that no matter how you feel about what you've just read, you've still heard the message. I think most people may find it difficult to continue denying the obvious--whether they hate seeing it or not. This is not to say that B should be given as bitter medicine. We should always emphasise that B is about hope. It is not about the end, but the beginning. Thanks for listening, brian
Brian Barth <bpb987@mail.usask.ca>
Saskatoon, SK Canada - Sunday, February 02, 1997 at 14:57:31 (PST)
I don't know why this thing always screws up on me? What I was trying to say was that mother culture is gone an now I have a new arch enemy of mother culture (or something dramatic like that) whispering in my ear, pointing out the lies. Thanks, Matt< /b>
Matt <samr>
Rcimond, IN USA - Sunday, February 02, 1997 at 12:02:57 (PST)
Steve, I agree with you about the difficulty in impressing some of our religious citizens, but all we need to do is affect 'one person at a time'. Just to read the guest book and see how many people have said something to the effect of 'I've stopped g oing to church after reading these books' is inspiring itself. Secondly, I can no longer watch TV or read the paper, or listen to the news without having this new voice whisper in my ear. Mother Culture used to be takling to me, but whispers to me, points out all the lies and shares my discust. It's great, I hope everyone can get an archmotherculture for Christmas like I did!! love to all Matt
Matt smith <Smithma@Earlham.edu>
Richmond, In USA - Sunday, February 02, 1997 at 11:59:43 (PST)
I wish I shared the optimism that B. and many of the respondents to this web site seem to feel. When I read ISHMAEL I wondered how the various religions of our culture might respond--not well, I figured, but Quinn did not really get heavily into this in ISHMAEL. In B., however, he confirmed what I had thought (feared). Today's religion, and most especially Christianity, are really not compatible with the changes that need to be made in our thinking. In fact, since reading these books, I find that listening to religious or political doctrine in this country leaves me absolutely cold. These people really have no clue at all. Perhaps this is not a reason for pessimism, but it is a huge job. And I am not giving up. I still try to spread the message to anyone I can, even those who read ISHMAEL and could not get past the fact that the teacher was a telepathic gorilla.
Steve Birmingham <Caspar X@aol.com>
Boulder, CO USA - Saturday, February 01, 1997 at 19:28:49 (PST)
Ramey's response to Deborah is important. A vision does not a reality make. This is why people need to learn the culture of design. We are familiar with two major inquiries in our society: science (describing what is) and the humanities (describing and expressing human experience.) It is time for a third: design (describing 'what should be').When a community learns design, it will learn to be envisioning and creating simultaneously. The horizon is continuously re-created and extended. As Mary P. Follett said in 1918 in THE NEW STATE (an awesome, hard to find book on creative democracy): "Progress is an infinite advance toward the infinitely receding goal of infinite perfection." This lady speaks of conscious evolution, 80 years ago. We're going to get this book republished soon. Look for it! One more thing: a good site for connections and ideas is the New Civilization Network. Visit at http://www.worldtrans.org/newcivnet/ Be well, Matthew
Matthew Shapiro <idahomat@micron.net>
Boise, ID USA - Saturday, February 01, 1997 at 12:27:09 (PST)
Hello all fellow B-lievers! I'd just like to say a few things to ring in this new month on the B- network. I have personally seen the effects of "B" and Ishmael on those who live around me and have heard of, or read, Ishmael or "B". People often overhear me speaking to someone about the ideas in the book, and inquire about them. Many of them read I shmael a couple of years ago and were excited to hear that DQ had a new book out. They were eager to read DQ's new work and were willing to put other popular books of today(C-prophecy,..etc..) aside in order to read DQ again. It gave me a feeling of hope to see people trying to re-kindle the fire inside, and the feelings of urgency that Ishmael gave them, but were buried or snuffed out because of despair and hopelessness. It made me realize how important it is to keep those fires alive, because it is thos e fires that will ignite a new vision. Many were glad, when I explained "B" to them, to find that "B" isn't so subtle, like Ishmael. I have also found alot of people who have "heard" of Ishmael, but did not seek it out. They are also eager to read it. I have found that if the people around you see you getting excited over the message, and see your enthusiasm torwards teaching people, they will be curious and will want to know what it is that you get so worked up about..Then you can suggest Ishmael, or "The Story Of B".(I have found this to be a real consideration, because Ishmael may be easier for some to "digest", and provides a good historical foundation.)...People seem to be yearning for guidance in this lost world, and YOU, along with the teachings of "B", are the teachers....Please feel free to contact me about ideas expressed in the books, or ideas of your own. I will glady respond, as it keeps me on my toes and helps me make the message my own...
Kurt Finguerra <kfingu01@sprynet.com>
Bend, OR USA - Saturday, February 01, 1997 at 03:35:03 (PST)
Daniel, I have just completed "B" Although, as with Ishmael I find it a reflection of my own thoughts(although expressed in a way i find myself unable to articulate) I am, however puzzled by the "plot" or at least the murder conspiracy bits. Was this intended to make the reading more dramatic and therby increase the impact or is this approach by the church a genuine possibility or in fact an actual occurance. kind regards jim
Jim Courtwood <fsn@f1.net.au>
Sydney, nsw Australia - Saturday, February 01, 1997 at 01:19:49 (PST)

Jim:

At the beginning of their work together, Ishmael told his student, "If you take this educational journey with me, you're going to find yourself alienated from the people around you---friends, family, past associates, and so on." Everyone who read ISHMAEL read these words, but not all of them believed it. And, not believing it, they wrote to me complaining that Ishmael's warning had come true---and asking me what to do about it! (The answer to that question, by the way, is: If you want to keep your friends, stay away from dangerous ideas.) THE STORY OF B is a cautionary tale---and is MEANT to be a cautionary tale. This isn't to say that those who say "I am B" should expect an assassin's bullet. But it is to say that those who say "I am B" had better expect to lose friends, had better expect to make enemies. I myself have lost friends because of this book. I myself have lost friends who LOVED ISHMAEL---because of this book. This is why THE STORY OF B is a cautionary tale. If you think you're going to make nothing but friends by espousing the ideas in this book, then I'm afraid you're in for a shock.

Daniel Quinn