The Bnetwork Guestbook Archives: 27 July - 26 August 1997


Dear Friends:

You are invited to join with the California Teachers Association in
sponsoring a future search conference on the
systemic nature of violence in our society. Our focus is to bring
together a diverse set of organizations concerned about violence (from
all aspects) in our society.

A future search is a large system planning model designed to bring
together individuals and groups who normally do not associate with one
another and have generally focused on their differences. From 100 to 150
individuals participate in a future search coming from a variety of
differen stakeholder groups. For example, we could have a number of
animal rights organizations, school groups, community groups and public
officials, law enforcement, nonprofit organizations (This is just an
example).

During the future search, individuals search for common
ground to develop action plans. The process is self-organizing,
self-regulating and self-maintaining.



The specific theme of the conference, dates and the specific stakeholer
groups to be invited will be determined by a design team made up of key
stakeholder groups. The first design team meeting is set for Sept 15,
from 5 to 7 in Sac. CA.

There is also a strong possibility that we will have a virtual
conference environment. This will include:

1. Private access for all participants to the Conference Center.

2. Threaded conferences on various topics within and across stakeholder
groups.

3. A Conference Center Newspaper

4. A 'Consensus Scoreboard" tracking the progress of the event

5. A Query Center so that participants can ask our Cornell/Lifenet
group
questions, and we can use the power of the internet to seek answers -- a
"directed reply" system for moving responses back to the particpants
will be provided

6. A Postings Index Page that logs all postings to the conference by
date,title, and authors, and provides participants with direct links to
the items on the Index

7. A Library of topical papers, to be jointly identified by the
planners,participants and our Network.

8. A logical or text-driven site search tool of the entire site.

The site will be maintained for 1 month prior to the conference and 6
months following the future search conference. During this time
stakeholder groups, mixed groups, interest groups and the design team
actions plans will be located at the site.

My organization could assume a major cost of the conference.

If this proposal interests you or you have questions, please feel free
to contact me at (916) 969-4700. We hope that you or a rep from your
org can attend the design team meeting.

If you will be able to attend the design team meeting, plese phone Karen
at (916) 969-4700.

Thank You

Yale S. Wishnick, Ed.D.

(916) 969-4700


Dr. Yale S. Wishnick <ysw@quiknet.com>
Citrus Heights, CA USA - Tuesday, August 26, 1997 at 22:12:17 (PDT)
first of all, i am happy to see that my entry is still here. this gives me hope in my quest to write in this guestbook. another great book to read is Primal Mind by Highwater. it may be hard to find but worth looking for. it tells the story of a young native amer. indian being infused into a white culture and the differences he finds in the way the 2 cultures perceive the world and our role in it.
william <n/a>
plano, tx USA - Tuesday, August 26, 1997 at 11:49:16 (PDT)
Anyone interested in literature depicting Leaver societies: Read Dune by Frank Herbert. He wrote it as a critique of our culture's tendency to seek absolute rock-solid answers to our fluid and dynamic problems. DUNE begins a 6-book science fiction series depicting a highly-developed Leaver culture (a technologically advanced Leaver culture, I might add) living in the midst of a universe-wide Taker culture. The series spans several millennia, showing this culture's fall to Taker-ism and then depicting its path to a revitalized Leaver-ism. I'd be happy to talk to anyone about it.
John Stonecypher <stonecypher@earthling.net>
Mason City, IA USA - Monday, August 25, 1997 at 13:03:53 (PDT)
I could not begin to comment in the fashion that a book of this quality deserves, so I will just leave a brief message. The insights of Daniel Quinn have turned me on to a whole new way of thinking. The Story of "B" has...CHANGED MY MIND!!!
Jason A. Waldrup <JW3270@wcu.edu>
Cullowhee, NC USA - Monday, August 25, 1997 at 11:37:25 (PDT)
Just completed Ishmael -most thought- provoking book I have read in years - provocative because it has caused original thinking (for me) about the premises on which man operates and his beliefs about God. Couldn't wait to purchase The Story of B- and happened to looked at the last page in the book to find this website. Will return with my reactions after reading it. I,too like so many of the contributors here am interested in discussing Quinn's ideas and bringing them forth in some form of a public forum.
S.Grasso <grasso@silcom.com>
Santa Barbara, CA USA - Monday, August 25, 1997 at 08:15:08 (PDT)
Having read comments about "Ishmael"
and "B" posted here over the last year
or so, my mind is blown by the huge
diversity in the understanding/misunder-
standing caused by a collection of words!!

John S Detrick <hpld@netwalk.com>
Delaware, OH USA - Sunday, August 24, 1997 at 20:08:17 (PDT)
I am interested in developing a discussion group in the Toronto area. I believe that the ideas presented in Ishmael and The Story of B can be the starting place for saving the world, but only if like-minded people come together.
Allison Sheard <allison.sheard@royalbank.com>
toronto, on canada - Saturday, August 23, 1997 at 11:49:59 (PDT)
If you would like to learn what a Leaver culture is like and what happens to it when it comes in contact with Takers, I highly recommend the article "A Dream Called Nunavut" in the Sept. 97 issue of National Geographic.

Another piece of the mosaic!

Ted Markow <tmarkow@agate.net>
Brunswick, ME USA - Saturday, August 23, 1997 at 05:35:40 (PDT)
it has been a year since i first discovered ishmael and nearly half a year since b. in that time i've looked continuely for my"uru". i've found some answers and i've realized there are no questions. i've come to respect mr.quinn and not agree with everything he says. i've read ishmael , b and providence. all three have changed the course of my life , but i can say with complete faith that everything to know doesn't stem from the teachings of the monkey ( ishmael ) or the bear ( b ). yet i know the teachings of b are alive for i am b also today. thank you danny.

neil chambers <nchambe@mail.clemson.edu>
clemson, sc USA - Thursday, August 21, 1997 at 11:52:36 (PDT)
im not sure if i was eliminated the last time i wrote in here b/c i cant find my message. ALEX, please defend my stand on the doctrine of ishmael and b so that i may be allowed to express myself here without discrimination on the basis of my lack of email.
william <none>
plano, tx USA - Thursday, August 21, 1997 at 11:17:24 (PDT)
Would like to speak to/meet with others in the SE USA. I travel for my work thoughout the south.
Joe Arnold <zwnj75a@prodigy.com>
Caryville , FL USA - Wednesday, August 20, 1997 at 14:07:56 (PDT)
The old order dyeth not. Readers of "B" and "Ishmael" will appreciate (not enjoy!) this quote, from a current Catholic website:

New Advent

"Hence in Spanish America, the Indian has held his own more than anywhere else, and has come to be a moderately useful element. Attempts to create Indian communities under the exclusive control of ecclesiastics proved very successful until the expulsion of the Jesuits, when all the beneficial results were irretrievably lost. ... From the English standpoint, the Indian was and is looked upon as an obstruction to civilization, and the expediency of his removal, forceful or otherwise, has dictated a policy sometimes completely at variance with the principles of forbearance and toleration so loudly proclaimed. But it must also be acknowledged that the Indian himself is largely at fault. His extreme conservatism in refusing to adopt a mode of life consistent with progress exasperates, and provokes aggressive measures on the part of, the whites. The cause of this conservatism lies largely in the religious ideas of the Indians, as yet imperfectly understood."

Talk about cognitive dissonance!

Tom Carey <tomcarey@mindspring.com>
Norcross, GA USA - Tuesday, August 19, 1997 at 22:01:26 (PDT)
An inspirational teacher. A great web site.
Jonathan Tanner <jonathan@memes.com>
Bellingham, WA USA - Monday, August 18, 1997 at 23:22:17 (PDT)
I was most impressed with the difference between a 'program' and a 'vision'. Christianity sweept "the world like wildfire" because it was a vision. Had it been a program, Christianity would have had the shelf life of a hoola-hoop.

A vision is much easier to contstruct than a program. A vision has sight. A program needs a site.

Patricia A. Osborn <Spoon838@flash.net.com>
Tucson, az USA - Monday, August 18, 1997 at 22:23:15 (PDT)
I haven't read B, but plan to immediately! I did read Ishmael and only one other book had the same life-changing effect on me, and that was "Way of the Peaceful Warrior" and its follow-ups. I want to thank you for disillusioning so many people! That is meant as a good thing. When the illusions are destroyed only the truth remains. Thanks again, Greg.
Greg Premo, Jr. <gpremo@hotmail.com>
Colchester, VT USA - Monday, August 18, 1997 at 16:15:21 (PDT)
Both Ishmeal and B changed my life.
I lost a lot of my friends because they think that all that is rubbish and they didn't like the way i thought about it all the time. I guess you find out who your friends are when you figure things out.
I want to save the world. I want to change visions and help out the mixed-up idea of the American dream.

becky <bloodyguts>
VT USA - Monday, August 18, 1997 at 12:25:21 (PDT)
I have been very impressed with the message of Ishmael and "B". I am a management trainer, motivational speaker, and psychic reader. I seek a path of oneness with the gods.

I have been looking for ways to incorporate the ideas of Ishmeal and "B" into my own lifestyle as well as, my readings, lectures, and workshops. I am open to more information and ideas. I see myself as B, however, I'm having trouble connecting the B experience with a spiritual path of oneness

I do see connections of the B experience with the 10th Insight, Mutant Message Down Under, and Caroline Myss's work Energy Anatomy.

I am happy to find this website, and wish for opportunities to exchange ideas, etc.

Love and Light,

Thomas III

Thomas J. Nolan, III <Thomas3@aol.com>
Norman, OK USA - Sunday, August 17, 1997 at 21:49:22 (PDT)
I am deeply interested in the concepts I found in "B".
Georgie Stillman <georgies@cris.com>
San Diego, CA USA - Saturday, August 16, 1997 at 16:46:10 (PDT)
I read Ishmael along while back after a friend suggested it and said yes! all the way through it.
Now after just finishing the story of B to say I am blown away is putting it mildly. It might be what pushes me on out the door into the wilderness way.

crowsho

Rodney Elder <Crowsho @ aol.com>
Arnoldsville, Ga. USA - Thursday, August 14, 1997 at 07:40:06 (PDT)
Just first time visit: Great ideas, strong approach/no matter what, we as humans need to be! Lets network, I will pass the word around! Thank you! E.Bonsi
Eduardo Bonsi <lightinyou@aol.com>
San Francisco, CA USA - Wednesday, August 13, 1997 at 18:55:26 (PDT)
The importance of B and Ishmael cannot be stated. The books have led a small group of us to form a wisdom circle.
LisaMcKeen <LisaMcKeen@aol.com>
Yakima, WA USA - Wednesday, August 13, 1997 at 11:56:08 (PDT)
hey Jayme, look up from your last post. If you want to talk I'll talk.
Dennis Lanigan <dlanigan@brigadoon.com>
Kirkland, WA USA - Tuesday, August 12, 1997 at 21:54:38 (PDT)


Whoops. I provided a bad link. Here's the right one for "Sleeping is for Losers"

Dennis Lanigan <
dlanigan@brigadoon.com>
Kirkland, Wa USA - Monday, August 11, 1997 at 19:38:02 (PDT)




It has lately been my thought that we must create a new counter culture like the beatniks, hippies, or punks in order to create a entirely different culture. The idea and creation of a new counter culture is what is important to me because I feel it is a step to saving the world. How does such a culture start? I don't know. I do know it involves people and those people talking. But where? Where can one question and enquire about this idea of a counter culture, or even further the idea if one feels like it? No site I know of emphasizes this idea of a counter culture or dialogue about such ideas so I created my own called Sleeping is for Losers. I invite you to visit the site and share your ideas.


Dennis Lanigan <dlanigan@brigadoon.com>
Kirkland, WA USA - Monday, August 11, 1997 at 19:32:27 (PDT)
well, i loved all of daniel's books. the only problems i have is expressing the ideas he expressed so well to me in the books. most the people i try to share my thoughts with are on such a different wave length then
i...

jayme wiseman <punkrock1@juno.com>
north bend, wa USA - Saturday, August 09, 1997 at 01:15:45 (PDT)
Wow! Just finished the book and will probably have to re-read it to make sure it is all understood!! What a vision and what a departure from everything I've ever considered true.
Courtney Hollands <TxHollands@aol.com>
Plano, TX USA - Friday, August 08, 1997 at 18:57:55 (PDT)
Extremely thought-provoking. Want to keep turning
the page to consume more--but need time
to digest it. Quinn spoke to many ideas/
concepts that have been forming in my
mind for many years--ones that i have
only begun to "put-together" in piece-meal
fashion. Some nights i read only a few
pages, other nights i read more than half
the book and find i must write in my journal until 3
in the morning. There is much that i would
love to discuss, so be reassured i will
be back. Thanks.

sincerely,
Melanie N. Stevens

Melanie N. Stevens <pxlnymph@aol.com>
VA USA - Thursday, August 07, 1997 at 08:06:07 (PDT)
B is a good story as well as a wonderful vehicle for addressing the theme of our culture and the problems that are a part of it.

I was struck by the narrative of the christ-antichrist prophecy (p62-63). I understand that all of the religious figures mentioned (Jesus, Moses, Mohammed, etc.) were people bound up in our culture. However, it might cause quite a stir to propose that the christ-antichrist prophecy has come true, but in reverse order. Maybe the anti-christ arrived first!! It could be that the wonderful sayings of Jesus are merely platitudes that serve as seductive invitations to death. Just think about what has ensued through following our religious leaders. Maybe Jesus is the anti-christ. Look at the "sins" that have occurred in his name. I thought that this was where the Story of B was heading when I was reading it. I know, too provocative (and probably too psychotic) for the purpose of the book. But it is thought provoking.

Russell Hopfenberg <RussH100@aol.com>
Chapel Hill, NC USA - Wednesday, August 06, 1997 at 07:55:29 (PDT)
Great book!

Wonderful breadth of vision, the likes of which I haven't seen since studying Oriental philosophy with Michio Kushi 20 or so years ago.

Funny story: While finishing "The Story of B" on my back porch yesterday, inspired by the vision of ourselves as part of the web of all life, I went to take the final sip of a "smoothie" I'd been drinking.

I noticed something in my mouth that felt like a piece of vegetation, maybe a bud or something ... reached in to throw it out and saw that it was a live insect! I felt another one still in my mouth and quickly spit it out along with the rest of the drink. But not before it had its way with me and stung me in the lower lip.

The insect? A Bee, of course!

(My lip healed quickly after the bite had swelled up some. Thanks to the local _free_ "Ask-A-Nurse" phone hotline for helpful advice. One way to help grow a viable new vision, it seems to me, is to acknowledge good things that already exist. Ask-A-Nurse may be an example of one. It's supported by local hospitals and is available to anyone.)

Jim Guinness <jmg@shore.net>
Boston , MA USA - Monday, August 04, 1997 at 09:00:39 (PDT)
Great book!

Wonderful breadth of vision, the likes of which I haven't seen since studying Oriental philosophy with Michio Kushi 20 or so years ago.

Funny story: While finishing "The Story of B" on my back porch yesterday, inspired by the vision of ourselves as part of the web of all life, I went to take the final sip of a "smoothie" I'd been drinking.

I noticed something in my mouth that felt like a piece of vegetation, maybe a bud or something ... reached in to throw it out and saw that it was a live insect! I felt another one still in my mouth and quickly spit it out along with the rest of the drink. But not before it had its way with me and stung me in the lower lip.

The insect? A Bee, of course!

(My lip healed quickly after the bite had swelled up some. Thanks to the local _free_ "Ask-A-Nurse" phone hotline for helpful advice. One way to help grow a viable new vision, it seems to me, is to acknowledge good things that already exist. Ask-A-Nurse may be an example of one. It's supported by local hospitals and is available to anyone.)

Jim Guinness <jmg@shore.net>
Boston , MA USA - Monday, August 04, 1997 at 06:56:32 (PDT)
Good!
amberwind <amberwind@hotmail.com>
London, ON CA - Saturday, August 02, 1997 at 11:45:12 (PDT)
I am part of a 10,000 strong and growing community of initiated men called New Warrior. A part of my mission, as it stands now, is to tangibly redress the balance between homo sapiens and the animal world. I am delighted to find this website, as I know the book.
Kirk Balcom <kbalcom@mindspring.com>
Reston, VA USA - Saturday, August 02, 1997 at 09:05:23 (PDT)
I would just like to recommend a book to all the B's out there that I thought was really in sync with D.Quinn's messages.
It's titled "Voluntary Simplicity" by Duane Elgin. It basically discusses ways to live more simply in our taker culture and illustrates how some people are doing that.
The book centers around how we all must make some changes (frugal consumption, protection of environment, etc.) to halt the ecological devestation of our planet.
A quote from D.Elgin - "We are moving into a traumatic time of social turmoil that will either transform - or devestate - the very soul of industrial cultures."

Heather <GypsyBites@AOL.com>
Bayport, NY USA - Friday, August 01, 1997 at 13:21:24 (PDT)
In response to Marc's comment on July 26 about how to reconcile the Leaver lifestyle with technology: I've seen this question come up in many forms. What we need is a system of technological criticism, a means by which we decide if we want a certain technology. The Taker rule in technological criticism is: "If it is possible and derive profit from it, go ahead and do it." Any rule we make, of course, does not define "the one right way to do technology," but we will want to design all rules with the knowledge that their workability is limited by the laws of life.

Here are two takes on what makes any particular technology worth our trouble:

E.F. SCHUMACHER
The new technology must be:
1. Cheap enough so that it is accessible to virtually everyone
2. Suitable for small-scale application
3. Compatible with man's need for creativity

WENDELL BERRY
The new technological tool must:
1. Be cheaper than the one it replaces
2. Be at least as small in scale as the one it replaces
3. Do work that is clearly and demonstrably better than the tool it replaces
4. Use less energy than the one it replaces
5. Use some form of solar energy, such as that of the body
6. Be repairable by a person of ordinary intelligence, provided that he/she has the necessary tools
7. Be purchasable and repairable as near home as possible
8. Come from a small, privately-owned shop or store that will take it back for maintenance and repair
9. Not replace or disrupt anything good that already exists, and this includes family and community relationships
---------------------------
I thought these might serve as examples of what needs to be thought about if we are to talk about how to use technology in a sustainable way.

John Stonecypher <stonecypher@earthling.net>
Mason City, IA USA - Friday, August 01, 1997 at 08:13:44 (PDT)
Just a quick note for anyone who checked out my website yesterday. My server chose yesterday to belch and it deleted a few of my files, including the one about gift economics. If you happened to go looking for it (I got several hits yesterday) and were disappointed by bad links, they work now.
John Stonecypher <stonecypher>
Mason City, IA USA - Friday, August 01, 1997 at 06:42:12 (PDT)
I wonder if there are not "reminents" of animism in the old and new testement of the christian church. Certainly there is much which is challenging in B and in Ishmael. But, the sermon on the mount and the book of job seem to me to offer reminders of a different consciousness.

Anyhow, I look forward to explore the land of B and to sharing it with my complacient friends.

Glad to see the note about being responsible for one's words. Words are carried by the spirit, by the breath all living things share.

Ken Taylor <ketaylor@mt.gov>
Helena, mt USA - Thursday, July 31, 1997 at 16:23:58 (PDT)
Some thoughts on Leaver wealth (WARNING: It will be a bit long-ish): In trying to effect a transition to different kind of sustainable economy in which support is given in exchange for support, I find it useful to recognize and use the mutual support systems that already exist. These systems are simple and small, and people don't recognize their simple freely-given transactions (babysitting, etc) as an economy. They don't see it as an option that can in any effective way compare with the Taker economy, so they utilize it very little (Less and less, I fear).

What I do is that I become a part of existing support systems with my family and community, and talk to people about what it is that we are really doing in that system, that we are forming a different kind economy. Mother Culture tends to put down the free transaction of support as a bastard child of the "REAL" economy (Asking your sister to babysit is less "sophisticated" than dropping junior at daycare). I think part of what needs to be done is that people need to be educated in how great and effective and easy gift economies are. I do so by always pushing the envelope in my support communities by giving more than is normal. People respond to that, and the kind of support that is "normal" to give continually grows. Giving extends beyond babysitting, to driving Grandma to the doctor, to canned vegetables, to healthcare (My sister is a chiropractor, and she cracks people's backs all the time for free. I told her she was being a village healer, and she liked the concept--Medicine Woman, you know), to furniture, to computer help, to teaching the neighborhood children about bugs, to fixing leaky faucets, to building houses. The possibilities are literally endless. The key lies in helping people learn that Leaver-ish free support addresses many of their needs better than the mass-produced product system. This is all stuff I am in the process of addressing and fleshing out on my website, though the GIFT ECONOMY section is still pretty small. I'm planning on putting in lots of accounts of Leaver economies in the Caribbean islands. Anyone else have experience or thoughts in this vein?

John Stonecypher <stonecypher@earthling.net>
Mason City, IA USA - Thursday, July 31, 1997 at 09:09:12 (PDT)
The more I think about it, the more I wonder how a modern Leaver society would actually function.

The first thing that comes to mind is Kurt's comment about "societies developing a distinct culture of their own, with no domineering culture imposings rules or trying to set standards, or trying to influence the other". One of the primary tenets of Quinn's philosophy is that there is no one right way to live, and he gives many examples of tribes with their own customs that work for them, and stresses that people in such cultural systems don't just go and change tribes, and indeed, they even have border wars that help promote the diversity and distinctiveness of each tribe. Yet, with our various communities pressed so close together, and with our mass communication and transportation technologies, I tend to doubt such protective insular systems could ever develop. It is simply too easy to share information today. It might not be a case of one society imposing anything on the other, but we are *already* so homogenous as Takers, it's hard for me to see us losing this as Leavers.

Now, it may well be possible to share elements of a Leaver culture in this manner and still maintain a viable and stable society, but this would differ significantly from the model that supposedly worked so well for so long prior to the Great Forgetting. Of course, we are obviously not completely homogenous now - there are differences between East and West, to use B's recurring example. It would be interesting to determine what specific evolutionary advantages cultural diversity conferred on our ancestors, and consider whether we could continue to enjoy them, and how dire the consequences would be if not.

Another example of a difficulty in supporting a collection of modern Leaver societies is that I fear "totalitarian agriculture" may be the only way to generate nearly enough food for even half as many people as currently exist on earth. I wonder how small our population would have to be before we could give up totalitarian agriculture completely, and how long it would take to reach that point given a variety of different interim food-production scenarios. Personally, I'm picturing something on the order of a century or two, assuming we don't just abandon all existing farms and let billions starve immediately but instead start gradually relying more and more on alternate sources of food at the local level especially. Populations would gradually migrate away from areas where self-sufficiency was not feasible. Wars would be fought over the "good" land.

Again, I'm not trying to say that it isn't possible, or even necessary. Just that a new "vision" will require the ability to solve potential problems like these. I don't think they all have to be foreseen and eliminated before we embark on the journey, either.

[ BTW, I apologize for inadvertently repeating my first message; it was a glitch at my end, and Alan kindly corrected the consequences of my problem at his end ]

Marc Sabatella <marc@outsideshore.com>
Fort Collins, CO USA - Wednesday, July 30, 1997 at 18:49:57 (PDT)
In my tribe we embrace everything that increases CONNECTEDNESS, to who we are, to the world and life and to the infinite.We do this by participating increasingly more in our processes of growing and becoming, growing and becoming yet again as we peel another layer of motherculture off and remember more and more of who and what we are.This is a loving process, and some of us tend to believe that love is what everything in reality is made of. Complex, very complex, yet so simple
Peter Shields <Takonut@AOL.com>
Oakland, ca USA - Tuesday, July 29, 1997 at 19:26:21 (PDT)
Quinn's work has deeply impacted my thinking about my faith, and I am harrassing every Christian I know to read them. I am disappointed to see a lot of anti-Christian sentiments among my fellow Ishmaelians. I think that only serves to restrict the message to people willing to abandon their faith. Not-interfering with others' freedom to live as they will is what the Leaver lifestyle is about, and I believe that a Christian can do so (Yes--Christians, even devout ones, can learn). Anyone interested can check out my website at

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3806

in which I explore in depth the idea of sustainable Christianity. I see a lot of unnecessary polarization on the issue that I hope to dispell. If anyone is somehow hostile to this idea, please talk to me. Perhaps we could learn from each other.

John Stonecypher <stonecypher@earthling.net>
Mason City, IA USA - Tuesday, July 29, 1997 at 09:11:39 (PDT)
Anyone wishing to discuss the information and thoughts provoked by Mr. Quinn's writings, feel free to contact me. I would love to find people who share my interest in these topics to discuss them with.
Brad Keeton <lavatory@wwd.net>
Ashland, KY USA - Monday, July 28, 1997 at 21:24:59 (PDT)
I've read the book, but cannot see how we can make an overt move to change our vision of ourselves. I can see clearly the message, but can't see clearly the road to take to see a realization of the message..
Frederick C. Haenel <chuck@toolcity.net>
Cambridge Springs, PA USA - Monday, July 28, 1997 at 10:17:31 (PDT)
Well, as I do know that discussion is hard online, myself and a few others who are also B and Friends of Ishmael are trying to get together a dicussion group in the Lancaster, PA area, if anyone else is interested please send me Email. Thanks

K Sherr <FELON41052@AOL.com>
Lancaster, PA USA - Sunday, July 27, 1997 at 23:51:25 (PDT)
Natalie... This may be a bit harsh, but its my opinion.. You really think that that long post that Marc wrote was a "glowing review"..
Did you even read it?? There is much to discuss and critically analyze within his post..Did you think mine was a glowing review as well??
Yes, many people just sign the guestbook saying how it changed their life, but many of those probably just think that its DQ's guestbook, and they want to express their gratitude with him. E-mail me, and we can discuss the matters at hand. What you agree with and disagree with..I see alot of good ideas posted here that are more than just praise... Don't you?? What are your thoughts?
You can sign the guestbook again and post your thoughts. You sound like you want to start discussion, yet you neglected to start one... Post your thoughts on the book, and people will respond critically... If you don't, they won't.. So whadaya say, lets discuss the matters at hand..
Whats bothering you?? You sound a bit angry.. Express it! Its your community!!...

Kurt Finguerra <kfingu01@sprynet.com>
Bend, Or USA - Sunday, July 27, 1997 at 22:52:51 (PDT)
I'm surprised that there is no critical discussion of the B ideas. Everyone seems to have glowing reviews. Is there room here for intelligent analysis, or is it simply just for fan mail?
Natalie DuPont <nkmd@apparentdepth.com>
CA USA - Sunday, July 27, 1997 at 19:14:57 (PDT)
In my tribe we welcome and incorporate all
ideas,emotions, experiences, sciences,
philosophies, faiths etc etc that lead to
increased CONNECTEDNESS with all that life
is.In my tribe we enjoy risking great leaps
imagination.We also suggest that consciousness have great bearing on shaping life and that we have full responsability for how everything in life shows up. We believe that love is the stuff that everytfhing is made of.

Peter Shields <Takonut@AOL.com>
Oakland, Ca USA - Sunday, July 27, 1997 at 10:17:05 (PDT)