The Bnetwork Guestbook Archives: 1-24 December 1997


When I picked up the story of B, I didn't know what the book was even about. I hadn't heard of Ishmael earlier, and so picked this book up to try another author!
This book has changed my thinking so radically. I am now engaged in doing a little more of self upgrading and unremembering the many things I have been taught, before I can claim to B. I will surely return to tell you about my own experiments and experiences!!
Until then let us keep this great work going!

Krishna Srinivasan <srinivkv@email.uc.edu>
Cincinnati, OH USA - Wednesday, December 24, 1997 at 13:52:53 (PST)
I need My Ishmaels ISBN # so I can order it thru our local bookshops. I am waiting for someone close to home to read these books.
They have radically changed my views on different things, or perhaps they have explained why so many of our beliefs I have been uncomfortable with. I am B, as we all are, and new ideas can take a while to be accepted.

Monique Gaboury <CubeO@ibm.net>
Oshawa, Ont. Canada - Monday, December 22, 1997 at 20:32:49 (PST)
I have found that it was easy for me to accept the message that Ishmael and B were giving, the hard part has been REMEMBERING, keep up the good work
Joey Koomas <Phaedrus15@aol.com>
Arcata, ca USA - Sunday, December 21, 1997 at 20:06:47 (PST)
this is the most exciteing and disturbing situation. people i explain plan b to are so sure that we are far beyond the point of no return. this is extremely discourageing,but at the same time it is what reminds me that this is the right way to live. thank you so much for all that you are doing and have done.
chad dee <squireln>
kansas city, mo USA - Sunday, December 21, 1997 at 09:54:15 (PST)

"How do we do X" (where X is "save the world," "stop population growth," "become leavers," whatever) is the most popular question I see on the guestbook sites.

Remember the narrator's story about Kurt and Hans in Ishmael (26-28)? To this Ishmael responds "If you alone found out what the lie was, then you're probably right--it would make no great difference. But if you all found out what the lie was, it might conceivably make a very great difference indeed."

Change minds. It beats hell out of sorting trash.

Jamie Myxter <jmyxter@juno.com>
Seattle, WA USA - Friday, December 19, 1997 at 19:30:47 (PST)
I've been wanting to add my name to the growing list of Ismael followers for some time. Just seems I'm always kept so busy peddaling on the Taker Thunderbolt that I haven't had a chance (one of Mother Culture's tricks, I think... keep everyone so busy they don't have time to make trouble). I read Ishmael two years ago and there hasn't been a day since that I haven't thought about some aspect of his teachings. Thoreau once said that for every thousand men whacking at the branches of evil, there is but one cutting at the root. Needles to say, Daniel Quinn is one in a thousand. His writings may well be the most important of this century, or even of perhaps the last 100 centuries, if indeed it is true that our entire civilization was built on a false premise. Both scary and exhilarating. It's back to the drawing board, isn't it? No more band-aids. Calls for a lot of creative imput from a lot of free thinkers. I would like to be kept informed of any inovative B ideas and activities. Hopefully, I can also throw in my two cents on occasion. Perhaps some day we can move beyond this culture of locks, laws and fences.
Bradley H. Boe <bhboe@juno.com>
St. Joseph, Mo USA - Friday, December 19, 1997 at 15:50:45 (PST)
I've been ready to move and find a new planet for over a decade now. "Ishmael" was lent to me and I see that it's not my strangness that led to my beliefs of man's damnation. There is a light, we just have to protect it and let it grow. Without gorilla, man has no hope. Let Ishmael be your gorilla, because there are no current vacancies in our solar system. It's here or hell and they can be one and the same. Long live Ishmael.
Brian J Hillis <notes4cash@aol.com>
Indianapolis, IN USA - Friday, December 19, 1997 at 06:29:39 (PST)
Thank you, Mr. Quinn, for writing such life-changing books. When I sat down to read Ishmael, I had no idea how much my thinking would change (for the better, I believe).
LeeAnn Hittle Balbirona <Lbalbirona@hotmail.com>
Redmond, WA USA - Thursday, December 18, 1997 at 11:30:49 (PST)
The books are great. We need more
answers and solutions.

Paul E. Schmid <pschmid@oconee.com>
Eatonton, GA USA - Thursday, December 18, 1997 at 08:07:49 (PST)
This was the most thought provoking book I have ever read. Thank you, Mr. Quinn. I am interested in discussing this as I have alot to learn. Anyone interested, please E-mail me.
Dave <LokinforB@aol.com>
Clearwater, FL USA - Tuesday, December 16, 1997 at 12:09:38 (PST)
Spread the vision.
Dan Salas <DSalas6410@aol.com>
West Lafayette & Schererville, IN USA - Tuesday, December 16, 1997 at 11:45:43 (PST)
I JUST WANT TO DO MY PART
Dave Wade <SUPERDAVE@AOL.COM>
CLEARWATER, FL USA - Sunday, December 14, 1997 at 18:51:10 (PST)
Was just browsing through the "what to do" section of the site. It came to me that part of the disconnection to who we are and the world we belong to, the IDEA that we are separete from, in a sense started when we decided to become Human DOINGS rather than Human BEINGS. If I wanted to be a human doing and save the world, I would face tremendous obstacles, having to figure out the Mechanism for achieving whatever my goals might be. As a human being, I can always B about saving the world, and everything around me will in one form or another come away with some form of information about that it is my viewpoint that the world needs to be saved. Personally, I do not find that the WORLD needs saving. Life will find a way, it always have and always will. Yet, I happen to LIKE life as we recognize it now, I like the coral reef and I find people irresistable. I find something wondrous about every expression of life that I take the time to connect with; grass, ants polarbears etc. So yes, I would like to save the world in a form that I, and yes, gorillas, still live in. To that end, I can B a source of a different perspective. I can B a messenger of others perspectives that I find useful in saving MY world. I can also B a copier of text, B an envelope stuffer or an E-mailer. I can B a persistant mailer of , say, the fable of the smiling frog, or a/any text on sutainability. I can B a wise decision maker in who to do all this mailing to. I could choose my or your "representative" in government, my kids teachers, industry and business leaders and I could choose people that are close to me in life, the ones I love. And I can B perfectly grounded in that there is no more powerful thing in the world than to just B.
Peter Shields <Takonut@Sprynet.com >
Oakland , Ca USA - Sunday, December 14, 1997 at 15:55:43 (PST)
Pupil desparately seeks teacher. Must have an earnest desire to B.
P Hoskins <hoskinsp@msn.com>
Portland, OR USA - Sunday, December 14, 1997 at 13:49:57 (PST)
I think that I have found the most significant book that I will ever read. I must know more.
Stanley Hellman <stanhell@AOL.com>
Birmingham, AL USA - Sunday, December 14, 1997 at 13:17:11 (PST)
the type/fonts on the site index pages is so small and items so close together that they are virtually unreadable. Please consider that many people can't read type this small! especially bright yellow against patterned brown (not very good contrast, but nice and artsy)

Also there are so many graphics to load that i prefer to turn images off as i have a slow-ish modem; unfortunately, then the white and yellow fonts are invisible. FYI, I'm using Macintosh and Netscape 3.0.

Thanks :-)

margaret weston <margaret_weston@capmac.org>
austin, tx USA - Saturday, December 13, 1997 at 16:01:30 (PST)
Ishmael has influenced another... It isn't so much that it opened my eyes up to a new world so to speak, but it put my thoughts down on paper in a way I don't think I have the brain power to. Thank you.
The question that I want to ask, is this: Are we supposed to relate to Ishmael in a way that causes us to go out and teach, or are we the last step in the teaching and it is now up to us to be the people that take these teachings and apply them?

Daniel Donaldson <Donaldso@ac.grin.edu>
Grinnell , IA USA - Saturday, December 13, 1997 at 15:29:29 (PST)
TO THE KIDS OF THE NW--
Maybe you did, maybe you didn't, but did you hear about my movie idea MYSTERYHISTORY? (read about it at the website www.olywa.net/mysteryhistory/mystery.htm). Well I have other ideas upon reading MY ISHMAEL. I live in the Northwest (olympia, wa), and was intrigued by the idea of the tribe of the Crow. My idea is this: We--kids who show genuine intrest in the idea--start the tribe of the Crow. We document our tribal experiment on film, detailing what works and what doesn't thru actual practice. This documentary film will serve three purposes:
1). Advertise the existence of the tribe. 2.) Provide a rough draft of How to start a tribe. And 3). Provide a truthful representation by the tribe itself beyond how media outlets may represent the tribe, for better or worse.
This idea is just that an idea, granted. But what doesn't start as an idea? If interested in starting the tribe of the Crow in either Seatlle, Olympia, or Portland please get in touch with me and we'll talk.
We can make this a reality, especially with the powerful communication tool of film.
I'll post more later at my site. Thanx for your time.

Dennis Lanigan <mysteryhistory@olywa.net>
Olympia, WA USA - Friday, December 12, 1997 at 13:26:59 (PST)
Whew!! Quite a short reaction...I am glad you were able to put all that down to share with others. It was probably difficult but hopefully healing to do so.
I would like to share with you what my reaction was to B. Ishmael was a nice story...abit strange but raised interesting observations and points to ponder. B shook the very foundations of my beleif system. I went through the various stages of grief, from denial and anger to finally reaching acceptance...but beyond that too. I have been a social activist for most of my adult life, actually being fortunate to make enough $ to exist in this trading based, taker culture. My basis of action was that I can make a difference and, being a very result oriented person, I will see those changes occur. When I finally accepted the enormity of the changes necessary to bring our culture into harmony with Mother Earth, I had to let go of the idea that I will be around to see those changes effect Mother Culture. But that does not mean I will stop the work that I do for social and environmental justice. That work is the foundation for those changes. I must increase what I do but change the attitudes I have. I was sitting at home one recent evening, contemplating what was the truth. It dawned on me that if I was fortunate enough to discover that truth, it would only be the truth for me. It would be what works for me but not necessarily for all others. If I felt compelled to stand on the street corner preaching my opinions as the only true way, I would be guilty of the same mistakes and lies that Mother Culture has perpetuated for the last 10,000 years. That is not to say that I will not speak my thoughts to others but I will not frame them as absolutes. That realization was the first part in my discovery of my truth and what I wish to speak to others about.
The second concept that I feel we, as humans need to accept, is that we are OF Nature. My friends speak of going out into Nature on the weeknd...I reply that I did also...I went to my home, because that to is part of Nature just as I am part of Nature. We are not over it, or have dominion over it, or stand to the side as observers of it, but Of It. When we, as a society and a civilization accept that premise, I hope that we will begin to understand better the interconnectedness or our very existence on this Spaceship Earth. What we do with our left hand effects the right, when we remove one integral part of an ecological system, we destroy the whole system, when we introduce for pieces to that system we alter the whole system. The first step I have taken in my new ways is simply attempting to raise awareness of this interconnectedness of all on this Planet. Teaching with out confrontation, stating opinions but with the openess that they are not absolutes.
This is the new path I have chosen. Thanks for sharing your story and I hope I possibly have stated something you can use. Don don@bridgingthegap.org

Donald Reck <don@bridgingthegap.org>
Kansas City, MO USA - Friday, December 12, 1997 at 12:04:34 (PST)
That second example was supposed to point to http://www.bnetwork.com/university/carry_capacity.html
Jamie <jmyxter@juno.com>
USA - Thursday, December 11, 1997 at 18:58:29 (PST)

Two versions of population management have been discussed. In Ishmael (131-2) and The Story of B (293-6), a negative feedback system is described in which food populations and feeder populations keep themselves in check.


A second model appears in the online page on the B Network. (I've seen similar research elsewhere, though I cannot recall where that was.) This second model uses as a real-world example wherein "29 reindeer were imported onto St. Matthew Island in the Bering Sea." In this model, which lacks a negative feedback system, the reindeer population explodes and subsequently crashes when the food supply has been exhausted.


It's interesting to note that neither model is "controlled"--that is, neither model relies on human management. (Surprise!) Both take care of themselves.


It's also interesting to note that neither model relies on birth control, or upon people acting better, or any other such nonsense.


What type of model does the human population represent? Are these observations not really two different things, but just two aspects of the same thing?


Jamie Myxter <jmyxter@juno.com>
Seattle, WA USA - Thursday, December 11, 1997 at 17:18:31 (PST)
It is sad that there are so many of us who want to help, but 99% of us don't have the enthusiasm to really cause much good. We just sit here and watch T.V. and say "Oh what a shame."
Sarah Trott <trotts@thomas.edu>
Gardiner, Me USA - Thursday, December 11, 1997 at 10:08:23 (PST)
JUST B
joseph croskey <croskey1@gte.net>
Oil City, PA USA - Wednesday, December 10, 1997 at 03:32:04 (PST)
We are all B aren't we? It's an unfolding. We find a loose thread and start unraveling it. What happens next is growth. Our taker culture is evolving out of itself. Not rapidly enough at the current pace to save itself though.

Good growth to ALL.

Jerry Jackson <wavesong@bellsouth.net>
Pensacola, FL USA - Tuesday, December 09, 1997 at 11:37:36 (PST)
I feel that my eyes have been opened to something very valuable and insightful to the future. For that, I am eternally grateful to Daniel Quinn. The only way I can think to repay him is to spread his word. Believe me, I'm working.
Matthew Burke <mjburke@biogate.com>
Beavercreek, OR USA - Monday, December 08, 1997 at 21:27:42 (PST)
I READ ISCHMAEL AND I REALLY THINK THAT MR. QUINN POINTED OUT SOME THINGS THAT I NEVER WOULD THINK ABOUT. THEY ARE NOW ON MY MIND AND I AM TRYING TO THINK OF WAYS THAT I CAN CHANGE MY WAYS. BUT I AM ALSO NOT WAITING FOR MR.QUINN TO TELL ME HOW TO DO THIS. I FEEL THAT IT IS A RESPONSIBILITY THAT WE ALL HAVE IN OUR HEARTS. HE MAY HAVE GIVEN US THE KEY TO UNLOCK THE FUTURE, BUT WE ARE THE ONES THAT MUST EXPLORE WHAT IS BEHIND THAT DOOR.
MARY L. MERSEREAU <MERSEREAUM@THOMAS.EDU>
WATERVILLE, ME USA - Monday, December 08, 1997 at 14:51:32 (PST)
Keep up the goodwork!! People are listening.
Robert Nathan Bell <natedog@rhf.bradley.edu>
Peoria, IL USA - Sunday, December 07, 1997 at 22:58:01 (PST)
guys,
I enjoy your site very much, I only wish I had more time to investigate all its parts.
When is MY ISHMAEL due to be released?
Thank you, and may you have a leaver christmas.
mike m

p.s. I can't locate any other "B" readers in my area (los Angeles) is this a fluke or proof of demographic steriotypes.

Michael Culin McGowan <mcmcgowan@hotmail.com>
Diamond Bar, CA USA - Saturday, December 06, 1997 at 16:58:51 (PST)
I just finished readin 'My Ishamel'. As with the rest of DQ's books I was very impressed with the ability to see to the source of the problem, the way of thinking and the way of teaching.

About two years ago (acctually the seeds were much further back) I realized that the world we live in is not sustainable - it's most evident in the children and in the youth. It's falling apart, not because the youth are bad - they are the same as they always were, but because they now have no reason to live, and have the means to realize it.

I guess, unconciously, I decided it was going to be my 'job' to find such a purpose, to find a reason for them to live. (And, of course, a reason for me as well)

It took careful observation of my home country to realize some of the things people DO live for. Scott Peck (I think 'the road less traveled') said - "you don't really start to live unless you have something you're willing to die for" when I looked at all the times I was willing to die for something (and there've been a few) I realized that ALL were for a community! My community. Some of the best friends and closest relationships I've had were from places like the military, earth quake, or other disasters. Once I realized this it was a simple step to see that the cause of most of the world's youth was NOT belonging to a community. The community can provide what the individual cann't - a purpose.

With the mass media (along with all the junk) came the realization that not every issue is black and white. With this realization, the community purpose which depended on it's absolute righteousness (from religion to nationalism to tribalism) lost its power and left people with a void - this is the void we must learn to fill.
(Triablists believed that they were absolutly right for themselves, religious and nationalists took this a step further in believing they were absolutly right for everyone - all had to have no doubts in their system in order to be willing to die for it.)

Readin DQ's My Ishamel put a 'formal' lining to this idea. The idea that community is wealth. I always new it 'felt good' but once described as wealth it lends itself to being part of a formal system - and that's what we're after.
(The 'Erratic Retaliator', apart from the ongoing readiness, provided the needed 'something to die for' which, is the best community former I know.)

However, it's really discurraging to have to look for war in order to form community (and earthquakes are not much better ;-) )

Saving the rain forest is nice (and absolutly neccesary) but it will not build a community except for those few who realize that it IS something worth dying for. What we need is a system through which people will be able to learn what is worth dying for. I'm not talking about a new educational system - that, as DQ noted, was just the symptom of the Taker system. What we therefore need is a new system.

The system that held tribalism together, I beleive, was direct communication and direct responsibility. A community with no annonimity. (See the Webmaster note about the 'sandbox' )

I believe that today, with facilities similar to the internet, we have the framework in which to build such a system that is not based on geographic proximity.
It's not what was. It's not tribalism, but it's based on the same concepts that made tribalism work. 'Global Virtual Tribalism' Purhaps?

If anyone is interested in exploring such possible systems, bring a heavy dose of constructive criticism, a good sense of humor and an ernest desire to save the world - and lets play ;-)

Allan

Allan Saxon <asaxon@pobox.com>
Oakland, CA USA - Saturday, December 06, 1997 at 12:52:49 (PST)
A great start in recognizing a major global problem. time to use it to find some possible solutions.
Allan Saxon <asaxon@pobox.com>
Oakland, CA USA - Saturday, December 06, 1997 at 11:41:48 (PST)
To Brian (Portland), Ted Marlow and all interested readers

I have been monitoring this site for some time and I share your concerns. Although some have an extensive background in our socio-environmental situation prior to reading DQ's books, there is so much more we all have to learn, more importantly, to unlearn in order to free ourselves from the stories of mother culture, and DQ cannot be the end or the source of all our unlearning.

I have put together a reading list of my own, which I have shared with other web visitors, but I am not, nor wish to be a guru of the new unlearning. The webmaster has supplied a small reading list, but it is short and not very broad in scope, and as Ted and Brian implied, it needs to come from all of us, individually and together.

But there is a problem with just throwing titles into a list in that it would become just a pile of paper, cardbord and ink without some sort of organization.

I have a suggestion that would allow interested readers to assemble, by participatory democratic consensus, a learning tool that could help us, and others, become the B's we want and need to be.

Rather than build a pire of books, I suggest that we begin by assembling a list of catagories or topics that we find ensential or complimentary to the cultural unlearning process. It would begin with any interested individual, posting their own list. Anyo ne interested in adding to, or amending that list would copy it from the web, amend it, and repost the ammended version.

After the list has bounced around a while, hopefully it will have evolved by concensus into a workable form.

With our catagories established, we would begin to contribite titles that we have read, with reviews, and possibly ratings and levels (it is important to have sources for the young as well as the advanced readers). We could continue to add or amend these reviews as with the catagories, but I don't believe anyone should veto what another persons considers valuable ideas.

Is this a program ? I don't think so, just a process and a tool. Of course it would be a better process if actually practiced within a physical rather than virtual community. But there is no reason why we could not use this tool, or develope our own with in our home community. Democracy, and education works best when it is participatory and interactive, and when individuals have a stake or vested interest in the outcome. We all have a serious interest in this task we undertake, to save our homes, or to sa ve our world.

If the webmaster is interested in coordinating such a process, that might be valuable, however I believe it would be more valuable if community generated.

At this point, rather than post my own list of topics, I'll sign off and let idea this float on the web for a while and see if it generates interest.

Take care,

Jim

Jim Demko <seawind@alaska.net>
Petersburg, AK 99833 - Friday, December 05, 1997 at 10:48:34 (PST)
Alright so I lied, I forgot one more thing, I do not mean to sound preachy or as though I know anymore than anyone else, but I feel that it is important and when I write things often come out as they seem to me at the time. For now it is extremely im portant to write this message before I go home to face the world and bars that I have been working so diligently to bend.
I challenge you all to bend the bars of fate and do whatever it is that seems impossible to you. It can be done, and with your help, and the help of your neighbors IT WILL BE!

SO LET'S SHOW THE WORLD HOW WE CAN CHANGE BY STARTING TO CHANGE OURSELVES!

Theresa O'Connor <toconnor@uofport.edu>
Portland/SLC, OR/UT USA - Thursday, December 04, 1997 at 20:23:36 (PST)
Hello everyone, how are you doing? I know you are probably wondering why on earth someone is starting out a response in this way, but just continue reading and you shall find out soon enough.
Where do I begin? Last year I read Ishmael and B, and this year I have been active in establishing many community groups and working for the cause. Let me tell you what I have learned and where I have been. You will find this a rather long response but one I think you should all take heed of.
It started out with a friend, a teacher, giving me the books to read and asking me questions, provoking my mind to think in a way that never seemes "allowed" before. Sound familiar? If not keep reading anyway, it will soon enough, I'm sure. I read the books and had the traditional "Wow!", " could this be?"...yadda yadda responses that we are all used to reading on this website. Now don't get me wrong, these responses are good and they are valid, but there is more to be learned.
I came to the Univeristy of Portland this fall to study, as appropriately as this may sound, as a biology major. I met many interesting people and I gained a great sense of the way people see these issues. Coming from a place such as Salt Lake City Utah , where the conservative nature is evident in every breath of air that is breathed, to a place like Portland where the need for a challenge and adventure can be seen in almost anyone you meet, is a big change. I started talking to people on the website, and taking e-mail addresses off the website to see if anyone would write me back, they did. Surprised and wondering what more could come of it all, I started to correspond with them. People who like me wanted a place to call home, wanted something to do , wanted some place to just B. We worked together and established an on-line community group amongst ourselves. we have talked to people from all over the country and even a woman from Asia. People have written us to try and gain a greater understandin g of what we were trying to do, you may be one of them, or maybe you will write to us now.
We learned something very important. Mind you people from every background, male, female, young, old, scholarly, musically oriented, author, poet. People from various backgrounds, knowledge, beliefs, family histories and conditions.

I found myself so involved in working with the B group, we came to call ourselves the B-Pirus group, that I felt torn between my studies and what I was doing. Is it more important to work to save the world, or to save your grade in a class? Is it more i mportant to work with people who are doing things on a world-wide basis or to attend a class that could have been held ten years ago covering the same issues that millions and millions of teens attend each year? Which is more important? DO you know? Do you care? Which is more important to spend time at a job that you hate in order to gain a salary that will buy you food, or to work with others on changing the world? Especially when that change can be tangibly felt. What would you do?
I was torn. I tried to be a "superwoman" and do it all but found that the more I did the less i retained. I would work with the B group and go to class and study, and pass my tests, and write papers that will be very beneficial in the future to the enti re movement, but I was suffering. It was easy for me to look over it at first, the pain that was developing in me, but when I ended up in the hospital it could no longer be overlooked. I was taken by ambulance to the hospital in September, there under t he consulatation of many physicians I was told that there was a great deal of stress causing many problems for me, WELL NO KIDDING! They promptly put me on medicine to "take away the symptoms" which where admittedly caused by stress, then I was sent home .
After talking to a frantic mother, and trying to recall everything that had led up to my collapse, things got worse. After seeing many doctors and "experts" I was told that I might possibly have a brain tumor. Others told me that it might be a blood dis order, heart condition, "head thing", siezures, and many more possible prognosises.
The next week was a tough one for me with moments where i physically could not move. I was paralized and helpless to stop what was happening to me, or so I thought. Things would get even worse, with family problems developing and another trip by ambulan ce to the hospital. This time they told me that I had a reaction to the medicine, and the something besides stress was definitely causing these symptoms. With vertigo (extreme dizziness and nausea almost prevent the normal functioning and interactions o f daily life), and increasing problems I was laid up in bed. I was still working with the B group and throughout my entire experience have continued to do so, but things at school were going poorly, and things at home were even worse.
In the next few weeks I would suffer from fears and anxiety as a result of "diagnosises", a suicidal sibling, a sibling that was running away, the actions of my other sibling, interactions with parents, and the poor decisions of my roomate ( who was sprea ding wild rumors about me throughout the school--not on purpose but as a result of her choices).
This past week things finally broke, I was forced to take a medical leave from school and will be returning to my hometown.
Now you may be wondering, well great what a story but why would some stranger post such a message on a board that can be read by all Bs? Why would anyone do this? Well the reason is simple, I also met Daniel Quinn. I know so big deal, you may have too, but I have a very important message to share with all of you. This message is simple and direct, if you want to change the world, start by changing your most basic attribute. Start with the things you rarely think about. Crazy thoughts? No they are n ot. DQ speaks about why he wrote the books, of what good he hopes for them to be, and even admits of his not knowing everything about the world. Now it's time to start sharing the deeper things with one another. Maybe you don't really care about what h appened to me, or what could happen to you, if so then you are not envoking the full meaning of changing the world.
Alright so I have said a lot of things and you still don't fully understand what I am getting at, Fair Enough. When I was working with the B group, we shared our opinons discovering that in order to justify ourselves (not for each other but more for ours elves) it was necessary to share where we were coming from. It was necessary to gain a deeper connection then merely talking about what is happening in the rain forests and what happened in a book called Ishmael. What is happening now, right now in the world we live in. This is important. If we do not address what is happening immediately in our own lives then we cannot, and never will be able to change anything else.
We also found that in exchanging these tidbits about ourselves that we gained more about the world, more perspectives and learned better how to address the world. I have given the book to many people, and will continue to do so, I have talked to many peo ple about the issues, their opinions, and why. I have seen the good and bad in every option, and I know that none of us knows what a new, BRAND SPANKING NEW, culture would be able to come up with. The thing to do though that is more important is to figu re out what this culture has come up with. Under the confines of this culture I came to college, you work a daily job, or whatever it is that you do. Under the confines of this culture I was unable to give up everything in order to focus on changing the world, this is unthinkable, crazy, drastic, lunacy-- yet it is the only thing that will save the drowning societies we live in. It does not matter where you live, or what you do, you will see that this is true.
Our challenge now is not merely to talk about what we have read, but to write, to be, to learn from each other. WE NEED to discover the bars of the cage that hold us in and find a way to change these constraints only when this has been achieved will the culture we live in every REALLY change.
So do you agree with me? DO you think that I am raving mad? It does not matter if you are not willing to find out more why I think these things, or to look outside your own window and discover what is held there. Practice what you have been saying all along and find the bars to the cage.
This is all I have to say and so until we meet again, or until you write to find out why I have devulged this information to you, strangers from all walks of life, talk with each other and remember the message.
Your friend,
Theresa

Theresa O'Connor <toconnor@uofport.edu>
Portland/SLC, Or/Ut USA - Thursday, December 04, 1997 at 20:19:13 (PST)
I've just finished reading B. It made me angry at first, but makes too much sense to ignore. Having taught K and first grades, I agree our educational system needs to let children explore their own interests. They would learn more!! Let's get the paren ts involved to create small communities! As far as the religion goes, what's wrong with believing a spiritial world exists along with the physical?

cheryl horvath <cahorv@aol.com>
oregon, oh USA - Thursday, December 04, 1997 at 06:39:37 (PST)
After reading "My Ishmael," I didn't know what to say. Most everyone writes in with an avid "bravo," but honestly I just fumbled around for the rest of the day UNABLE to do anything of significance. However, now I think or hope I've got it. To those who keep asking DQ what to do and what next?...read "My Ishmael"! Then stop bugging the man and look around you! There's plenty to be done; start a recycling program, start talking to people about what's going on in your area, or just start informing p eople on what this world is coming to. All of these can be quite fun! This type of revolution isn't going to coome as a burst out of DQ's hometown but more as little spots all over the world that just keep getting bigger! So, find your own Ishmael and follow HIM!
dujeu <dujeu@mailcity.com>
lawrenceville, GA USA - Wednesday, December 03, 1997 at 11:41:34 (PST)
I want to help. I want to help. I need to help.

but, will I help?

Claudia Coleman <ECHS_137@k12server.mveca.ohio.gov>
Sabina, OH USA - Wednesday, December 03, 1997 at 08:38:27 (PST)
Great website. I have just read Ishmael (in a Philosophy class) and it really does make you think.. Is Ishmael really Socrates??
I wonder, Kathryn

Kathryn G. Scussel <kgshdc@worldnet.com>
Jacksonville, Fl USA - Tuesday, December 02, 1997 at 19:24:33 (PST)
I am interested in becoming a part of a "support group" at Colorado State University. Is anyone nearby interested?
Robert Walker <robwal@holly.colostate.edu>
Fort Collins, CO USA - Tuesday, December 02, 1997 at 13:36:31 (PST)
i've been wondering if you have evry heard of sociobiology by wilson or the moral animal by robert wright. i ask this because i've continued to think about your metaphor of the latter. to truly understand a situation one must go higher up the latter to see farther points. evolutionary psychology may be seeing farther than just agriculture. i'm starting to see the argument that everything we do , feel and say is a product of evolution and not simple society. questions like why did natural selection unconsciously design us in a way that we became able to produce agriculture? why do we continue on a path that seems to be leading to destruction , how did evolution play a part?


neil chambers <NCHAMBE@mail.clemson.edu>
clemson, s.c. USA - Tuesday, December 02, 1997 at 09:25:46 (PST)
Hi everyone,
I was just considering the idea of support instead of material consumption in terms of "What to Do?" Now that Christmas is approaching, many people are searching gifts to give eah other--usually material things. Another option may be gifts of suppo rt. For example, clean your grandmother's house instead of giving her a new toaster, take your friend's kids sledding instead of giving them toys made to break, even just simple acts of kindness to acquaintances, whatever works for you! Not only are the se such gifts cheaper than material goods, but they can be more endearing to the giver and the reciever. If however, giving material things is what works for you, don't think I'm saying you're wrong; what I've suggested is just an option.
Keep talking,
Brian


Brian Barth <bpb987@mail.usask.ca>
Saskatoon, SK Canada - Tuesday, December 02, 1997 at 08:45:10 (PST)
"The challenge I see myself facing as an individual in American society
is to accept Mr Quinn's challenge and translate it into my daily life so
that the message is passed on to my children and those others I can
trust to listen, accept and pass on as well."

Best wishes to you upon your quest; and in in doing so, may your consciousness perceive ultimate reality as well.

Autumn Mullins <Adgm039@aol.com>
Fl USA - Monday, December 01, 1997 at 19:58:23 (PST)