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Destry    #16085
Flag    AZ USA     Posted: Thursday, April 8, 2010 at 4:46:0 CST (GMT -6:00)

"You ever seen The Matrix movies? Those were pretty interesting. I thought the first movie especially was a great idea. And... one of the things i kept wondering was, Why is it that we as humans seem to be so afraid of a machine waking up and becoming conscious? And then one day, i thought: I wonder if it's because that's what we are? I wonder if it's because WE are machines that have become conscious? And it's our greatest fear that... what has already happened will happen outside of us... because we can't see it and we're just projecting it."

-David DeAngelo, talking about Richard Dawkins and the "Evolution of Attraction" (chapter in "Advanced" dvd series).

destry    #16084
flagstaff    az USA     Posted: Tuesday, April 6, 2010 at 18:40:0 CST (GMT -6:00)

daniel has said, i think, that you can't make saving the world your career.

and that, if it's what he said, makes sense: i don't know of any applicantions i can fill out to that "job," and wouldn't even begin to know where to find someone to pay me to "save the world."

but i don't NEED, or even really WANT, any money.

i'm one of those "hobo"-artists, like Dan Price. and the only difference is that working on, and becoming more effective at, saving the world...

....IS my "art."

does this work despite what dan says?

i guess i'll know when i don't have time to ask anymore...

why can't we specialize in "saving the world" by specializing in mastering the most useful tools and techniques of, you guessed it....

saving the world?

i dunno.

^ ^ <(*)> ....U

lisa tidwell, 2901 west 84th    #16083
anchorage    ak USA     Posted: Friday, April 2, 2010 at 19:45:0 CST (GMT -6:00)

I really enjoyed reading Ishmael and look forward to reading Mr. Quinn's other novels.

Sam    #16081
   USA     Posted: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 at 10:34:0 CST (GMT -6:00)

I'd like to recommend a Sun Magazine article, an interview with Alex Steffen and his Optimistic Environmentalism. Some of Ishmael's European friends have been trying to tell us this for quite some time. link

Here is an essay from Steffen's website: link

Cheers, Sam

Parker    #16080
Boulder    CO USA     Posted: Thursday, March 25, 2010 at 18:32:0 CST (GMT -6:00)

Thank you DQ for your three books: Ishmael, Story of B and My Ishmael. They are such important contributions to the collective consciousness. I've made a habit of giving these books to others because of their penetrating and eye-opening impact. These stories combined make a better case for a conscious shift in our social behavior than any other I've encountered. I hope that someday (sooner rather than later) our world will arrive at the same conclusion.

Dave Turgay    #16079
Landau    Germany     Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 at 1:41:0 CST (GMT -6:00)

Today I confronted them with another excerpt, two pages from the 'School Daze' chapter from "My Ishmael" about the task of pupils not to ask any questions to help the teacher and that our school system teaches us zero survival skills.

I didn't expect much as a reaction because this class is extremly well adjusted to our civilized society. It's as if they can't wait to go out there and become bankers. Trying 'Ishmael' on them is like showing a movie without sound to blind people.

How did they react? It was a mixture of indifference and confusion. I had to convince them with great effort that some teachers really don't like the feeling that some pupils don't understand them. And one girl said about the survival skills: "Well, in our society we need something like physics to survive, we need it for our jobs."

Again, I expected this. I'm not discouraged. And I know that some few of those who didn't say anything at least thought: "Hm, there's a thought." And the ones who got a bit angry will also have a hard time forgetting some of those ideas. I don't want to be too romantic for myself but I know that such reactions do not mean nothing happened. Some of those minds have been touched by something and feeling angry again proved this (to me).

destry    #16078
flagstaff    az USA     Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 at 14:26:0 CST (GMT -6:00)

and, excuse me, and i'll not be commenting further here this week, but, dude: Dave?

truly amazing post.

Dave Turgay    #16076
Landau    Germany     Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 at 5:40:0 CST (GMT -6:00)

I haven't yet used "Ishmael" in class (because I haven't had the right classes yet), but now and again I ask my students questions that go in the direction and recently I gave my 10th graders an excerpt and let them write about it. I want to provide everyone here with some views our youth has when confronted with civilization-challenging ideas.

The students from the following quotes are around 15-16 years old. They read the excerpt where Alan explains why he is looking for a teacher and had to explain if they think going to school has a purpose:

"I think there is no one who ever can save the world, but the idea of someone who has the possibility to do it is great, so you don’t have to be afraid that the world will die." (A.-K.)

"Furthermore it is important to go to school so that you get an idea of what you are interested in and what your 'special skills' are." (N.)

"Homework can’t prepare you for your future life, I think." (A.)

"I don’t think there will be a teacher who knows how to save the world. It’s a really silly idea, nobody can save the world and of course no one alone. The man in the text should go to a hospital for psychos. He needs psychiatric help." (C.)

Those are just some examples. I try to provide more in the future as I get them.

I find the last one particularly interesting, because the girl reacted to strongly to Alan's idea of finding someone to save the world. It seemed to me as if she was angry that someone could think this is possible and in that anger she reminded me of Alan.

The school system I have to work with is terrible, but I love my job and although I can't tell my pupils directly how to save the world, I love to send such thoughts through their heads.

Billy Vernor    #16075
Houston    Tx USA     Posted: Thursday, March 18, 2010 at 10:33:0 CST (GMT -6:00)

I have read Ishmael 3 times now and I just finished again yesterday. Just came to check out the website for the first time to maybe find other peoples' perspectives.

destry    #16071
flagstaff    az USA     Posted: Thursday, March 4, 2010 at 6:36:0 CST (GMT -6:00)

i'm really, really EXCITED, so i'll post this ONCE.

i just figured it out this morning.

the theory:

men work to get women. that's why we're destroying the world: we don't know how else to MATE. like any other adult creature, we're driven by hunger and the mating desire. that is, if you reduce a man's existence way, way down to the basics.

food. sex.

simple, right?

i believe that people in general are living so as to destroy the world because we see no VIABLE ALTERNATIVES.

and i personally now think that men in particular are motivated by the belief that if they quit their jobs and persue their passions, they'll be unable to mate.

imagine that.

what if men are ruining the world because they just don't know how to be naturally attractive to women without status in the heirarchy?

and, i know this is a streach, but...

...what if we changed all that?

Belinda    #16069
Tyler    TX USA     Posted: Sunday, February 21, 2010 at 7:33:0 CST (GMT -6:00)

Mr. Quinn's novels add significantly to my personal question to the universe, "what can we do?" I hope to become clearer about what is necessary and what will help me sleep at night because in the end it has to make sense to me and my own heart. Is there really time enough to make a difference? I'll try to exhaust my possibilities before giving up. It's just not good to live alone in this world, walled off from one another's lives as some of us do.

dlundy    #16068
pdx    USA     Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 at 9:58:0 CST (GMT -6:00)

I have posted in the past but just ran across Barry Lopez' current work and want to encourage all to have a look..

here is an excerpt of lines which I edited together from a recent Barry Lopez talk..(maybe this should be posted at Ish think or somewhere..I dont visit often)

But Eden, we should be at pains to point out, is not a place. Eden is a conversation. It is the conversation of the human with the Divine. And it is the reverberations of that conversation that create a sense of place. It is not a thing, Eden, but a pattern of relationships, made visible in conversation. To live in Eden is to live in the midst of good relations, of just relations scrupulously attended to, imaginatively maintained through time. Altogether we call this beauty.

We cannot, of course, save the world, because we do not have authority over its parts. We can serve the world though. That is everyone’s calling, to lead a life that helps.

We cannot save things. Things pass away. We can only attend to relationships, to the relationships between things. It is here that we see the most beautiful images we are capable of apprehending or imagining—the relationship between a mother and a child, the racket of sunlight on pooling water, a bird alighting on a limb. Conversations are efforts toward good relations. They are an elementary form of reciprocity. They are the exercise of our love for each other. They are the enemies of our loneliness, our doubt, our anxiety, our tendencies to abdicate. To continue to be in good conversation over our enormous and terrifying problems is to be calling out to each other in the night. If we attend with imagination and devotion to our conversations, we will find what we need; and someone among us will act—it does not matter whom—and we will survive.

We need to thank our ancestors, who knew trouble was coming and whose prayers have brought each of us to Bali to meet, to draw wisdom and strength and renewal from each other. We need, each according to his or her gifts and by his or her own lights, to be the servants of beauty. We need to prefer being in love to being in power.

Cherish each other. Travel in beauty. Our lives depend on it.

Melissa    #16067
San Clemente    CA USA     Posted: Tuesday, February 2, 2010 at 21:21:0 CST (GMT -6:00)

My favorite cousin strongly recommended I read Ishmael, so I picked it up from the bookstore a few weeks ago and started into it. I absolutely cannot believe I hadn't done this earlier. Ishmael is a masterpiece and has redefined the way that I view the world. Thank you, Daniel Quinn.

Destry    #16066
Tampa    FL USA     Posted: Tuesday, February 2, 2010 at 14:13:0 CST (GMT -6:00)


sound interesting?

it is.

gwagwagwe    #16065
Luther    Ok USA     Posted: Tuesday, February 2, 2010 at 10:8:0 CST (GMT -6:00)

Gwagwagwe and D.I.A.L International.

Here we go children, follow the trail of bread crumb sins. Thanks Bob. When that Obama-man collected his Nobel Prize a small butterfly fluttered his wings in Madagascar and I was blessed with a series of visions. Yes the signs, omens, and irony given to us by the gods of this place have been an essential part of our new perception of reality. I had masked-up (an omen) and destroyed my idiot box. My time was free to fill with a new spirit of spectacle. One of my own choosing. With a burgeoning small business I had some extra cash to spend. With a help of Christmas-future I had jahbless of many varieties and many wonderful holiday bakery items full of trainwreck to focus my dreams and visions. The spectacle of choice was the Fantasy Island. It is what it seems, but the depths of my adventures were far from carnal. I had recently read a book (maybe my last) that opened up a part of my mosaic that had been hidden. The Great Cosmic Mother. Goddess? The gods? Is this my answer for that uneasy feeling when I credit the gods of this place for the signs and omens that dictated our paths? Has my male nature denied me a special communion with the community of life? She may feel the tides and earth at moon time, she can nurture the young of all species, and she can give life. Can I-Male only take it, eat it, and fuck it? If we are to recreate a culture that cherishes humanity, that reconnects us with the community of life on a spiritual basis (this is my vision, for my tribe), then maybe I should worship the goddess. I do need worship, ritual, creation myth. Why not give it to the mother? Back to the strippers! So if I was going to create a new cult/spectacle, then I need a creation myth. That’s simple, as it should be. The Goddess created the sun, earth, moon, and the community of life. Twelve words, divisible by three, the number of the goddess. Yes numerology is a lovely facet of our faith. 9/9/9 was its birthdate. I have been on this mortal coil for 39 years. Enough! So with our creation myth we need a world view, a philosophy. Again, keep it simple. Make Happy, Make Pretty, Make Whoopee. That’s all. Again back to the strippers! I love pretty; the pretty that I like is maybe different than the pretty you like. The female body is my new church. Don’t Laugh! So I began calling Fantasy Island my office. I learned the alias’s of the girls, I supplied them with the happiness that trainwreck can bring, and they showed me their craft. I perfected the worst pick-up line on the planet; “I wanna spend a couple hours worshiping the goddess downtown, wanna cum?” Yes I know. Ouch! During this communion, I was deeply engrossed in Dylan and Seeger; I was exploring the connections between my new trade and the trade of these women. The goddess brought me a little joy with which much of my future adventures will be driven.

Sex Trade Workers IU 690 & Hotel, Restaurant, and Building Service Workers IU 640. (Damn if were not in the One Big Union.) Public Service Union IU 600. Solidarity Forever. International Workers of the World. (The Wobblies).

So it is with great joy that I come out. I have joined the union, and I am a bi-sexual. Wow. The goddess is spinning circles around my soul; she is bringing me closer to the vision of a completed mosaic. Special thanks to my lovely Beyond Light Aglow In Rapture, your servant forever. Window Cleaners and Strippers retake the capitol building. The grandest spectacle you have never seen! Yes as I create my little tribe of window cleaners I will be organizing the Window Cleaning industry of OK, and when that’s complete Ill be joining my fellow sex trade workers at the barricades. Joe Hill is squatting with Woody on the sandstone hills of NE Oklahoma county, here in Indian Country.

At the winter solstice. I awoke to a sunrise that spoke only poetry. So that’s what I did. I spoke in rhyme for the next eight hours, and decided that it doesn’t matter what you say, it’s how it sounds that matters. Chomsky Chatter. So language, or at least the spoken word, the storytelling evolutionary expectation must be a sign from the goddess. I was not aware that I was forming a cult/spectacle, I just knew that my creativity and sensuality was at a crescendo. I started dancing. I was dancing in the morning, dancing on the rooftops, dancing at sunset, dancing between the sheets. So dance or the art of movement must have a role to play in our new faith. My Bison Brother was encouraging me to concentrate on these little prayers he calls stories, but I was thinking of a time before I was Gwagwagwe, a time before Echo, before Cotton of the R.C.Y.B., a time belonging to this place, a time when I was U.P.W. Few of you know that moniker. The Ultimate Peace Warrior was given to me buy one of my first and most powerful muses in 1989. She showed me how to dance on rooftops and held my hand during my first tattoo. I love her still. She comforted me after the death of ROXI, and she recaptured my imagination for the female sex. Most of all she performed with me. Yes before the academic mafia seduced me with science I loved acting, and if I say so myself, I was pretty good at it. Make happy remember? So performance must play a role in our new faith. So what to name this monstrosity? The name game is something I will fight against all my days, so I had to think of something ridiculous. Words, Zerzan maybe had something, maybe he was channeling Chomsky? It came to me when I was working on the above wordplay Beyond Light Aglow In Rapture. I had just reread After Dachau and I was playing with being the reincarnation of Woody Guthrie and Emma Goldman and the goddess brought me the answer.

Doppelgangers In Another Life “ D.I.A.L. International”.

This is my new religion, I will defend it to the death, I will teach it to my children, and they will teach it to seven generations. You’re welcome to believe what you wish. For I&I have found the truth.

Beware of our evil arch-enemy D.I.A.L. Incorporated. They control mother culture and they will trick you into treating others badly, and they suck happiness with a huge sky vacuum.

Until next time. Make Happy, Make Pretty, and Make Whoopee Gwagwagwe (a member of the bison band), a small part of the new tribal revolution.

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